Prove the coffee snobs wrong… Instantly!

As we all move to drink better quality coffee is there still a place left for cheap instant coffee? Jools and Scott put to the test whether everyday coffee drinkers prefer instant coffee over specialty.... in coffee desserts?

As we all move to drinking better quality coffee is there still a place left for cheap instant coffee?
Jools and Scott put to the test whether everyday coffee drinkers prefer instant coffee over coffee desserts!
Learn how to make homemade ice-cream (with no fancy machines) and tiramisu by sticking around to the end of the episode.

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Want to make these coffee desserts yourself?

Tiramisu recipe:
No churn ice cream recipe:

A big thanks to Extract Roasters for offering their Uncle Funka for us to use!

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Get your next suit tailored with Will Adams:

A massive thank you to Vas and Evelyn for persevering through a kilo of highly caffeinated tiramisu!


Jools Walker: Welcome to Adventures in Coffee, a podcast by Caffeine Magazine, sponsored by iFinca and Oatly
Scott Bentley: In this six episode series, Jools and I are going to explore the world of coffee for those people that are curious about what's in their daily cup.
Jools Walker: I'm Jools Walker, a proud East Londoner, a cycling advocate, and a secret instant coffee lover.
Scott Bentley: Buuu I'm Scott Bentley. I'm the founder of Caffeine Magazine and a purist when it comes to the pour overs.
Jools Walker: Now, Scott, I know in your very esteemed magazine that you do these coffee cocktails and you always use these sort of wild and far out coffees for them like Geishas, which is cool. Don't get me wrong. But I do always end up kind of thinking to yourself, why don't you just use instant coffee for these?
Cause you know, it's. Quicker. Um, no,
Scott Bentley: What? No, no, no, no, no stop stop there.
Jools Walker: Oh I've touched a nerve.
Scott Bentley: I mean, the thing is, is, you know, this is about using great ingredients to produce really great flavors. I mean, you wouldn't see someone like Heston, Blumenthal or Gordon Ramsey saying, and for this dish pick up your cheapest gristly is bargain basement out of date, piece of steak guy.
You just it's all about, you know, Good flavors make good products. That's why I would never use it.
Jools Walker: Yeah. But then you just sound like a bit of a coffee snob when you're saying that.
Scott Bentley: Yeah. You know what? I w I'm not gonna disagree with you. I am a coffee snob
Jools Walker: Okay. Then snob Scott. Our dear listener is probably wondering why on earth.
We're going to be doing in this episode. Well, it's going to be this. We are going to put to the test, whether the regular people, not coffee, Snobes like yourself, Scott prefer speciality or instant coffee. We need to, to find out, Oh, the coffee snobs, just being snobs for the sake of it?
Scott Bentley: Oh I love the way you're playing this Jools, it's like, Oh, I just don't understand all this stuff. You know what good coffee is. And more bad coffee is. I've sent you great coffees and you’ve adored them.
Jools Walker: You can come to my house and you can open up my kitchen cupboards, and you will find specialty coffee in there, but you will also find some very bog standard instant coffee, because I believe that there is a place for this in the coffee world.
Scott Bentley: Nicely put,
Jools Walker: Thank you. I try.
Jools Walker: Okay then Scott. So let's unpack this from a completely technical point of view. Why is a cup of instant coffee, lower grade or less superior than a cup of specialty coffee?
Scott Bentley: So specialty coffee is graded as this high quality coffee, because the beans have been really cared for only the best ones are picked and they're all sorted and separated.
And essentially what you're getting is the cream of the crop. Now, when all of these coffee beans from all around the world, get sorted and graded, there are a load at the bottom, a load of, for the floor sweepings. Which aren't really good for much. And so what they do is that they turn this stuff into instant coffee.
Now, the way in which they make instant coffee is essentially they brew up coffee in the same way as you would brew up coffee. And I would, and then they fire this coffee with a really fine spray into a, like a super dry, hot container and all of that water that they brew the coffee with it evaporates.
And what you're effectively left with is this. Dust or granules. And that's what you get in your team. You're just getting brewed coffee. That's been kind of all the water taken out.
Jools Walker: So, do the experiment. Now. We're not going to be testing a cup of instant versus a cup of speciality here today.
Scott Bentley: Yeah, because we can't have most database of this experiment in the last episode with Mama V.
We had the really gorgeously expensive and fantastically flavorful Geisha, and we pitted that against again. A good coffee, but one which was obviously lower grade
Jools Walker: And we know how that ended. Uh, Mama V ended up liking the really super expensive speciality stuff.
Scott Bentley: That's because your mom's got really expensive taste.
Jools Walker: She's a classy lady. This is very true.
Scott Bentley: So coffee in a cup comparison. I mean, there's just no contest here.
Jools Walker: Absolutely agree with you on that one, Scott.
Scott Bentley: Yeah. So this is really more about coffee as an ingredient now. Using coffees and ingredients are very different job to just tasting a really wonderful cup of coffee. It has to interact with other flavors and other things.
Jools Walker: And that's why in this episode, we tested out instant versus speciality in a dessert.
Scott Bentley: Okay, Jools What desserts are we talking about today?
Jools Walker: We have coffee, ice cream and that classic delicious Italian dessert tiramisu.
Scott Bentley: Yum, yum, yum. Anyway, let's cut now to the day we actually made these desserts, but, just before that let's have a quick word from our sponsors
Scott Bentley: Jools, you remember when a cup of coffee used to cost about two quid?
Jools Walker: Those were the days. Yeah. I'm paying about what three pound 50 for a flat white now.
Scott Bentley: But the funny thing is that farmers aren't getting paid anymore.
Jools Walker: Oh. So I'm paying more for my coffee, but the farmer's not getting the benefit?
Scott Bentley: No, but you know, partly that's inflation, isn't it? Cafe costs go up the price of their milk, the parts of the electricity and their costs. They go up, but farmer's costs go up as well. And yet the farmer still gets paid about the same.
Jools Walker: How am I supposed to know if the farm has been stiffed or not? If I'm paying more for the coffee at this end
Scott Bentley: The only real way to find out is if it's, iFinca verified you can find out by scanning the QR code, how much the farmer got paid.
Jools Walker: So, if you want truly transparent coffee, ask your roaster to get their coffee. iFinca verified.
Jools Walker: The next day we were in our respective kitchens, making our desserts, the tiramisu and the coffee ice cream.
So Scott, I was the one making the tiramisu and getting it ready.
Scott Bentley: Oh no. Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Who was making the tiramisu? Was it Ian, your boyfriend, the professional chef making the tiramisu while you were keeping your seat warm?
Jools Walker: Yes. Yes, it was Ian making the tiramisu in our kitchen. So it was a collaborative effort. Anyway, let’s go
Scott Bentley: You’re holding the microphone, Jools
Jools Walker: Anyway, moving on here is Ian, talking about the very short list of ingredients. You need to make a tiramisu.
Ian: You're going to need some mascarpone cream, some eggs, some sugar, some Zappa Waldy or ladies fingers biscuits, and some coffee.
Jools Walker: And you can listen to all of the audio of Ian making this tiramisu at the very end of this episode
Scott Bentley: Oh come on, Jools, let's just get to the meat of it all.
Jools Walker: Okay. Once we were done, we had two tiramisus. One was made with a speciality coffee, which was Uncle Funka  from Extract Roasters, and the other was made with a cheap supermarket instant coffee.
Scott Bentley: Yep. So these are two identical tiramisus, the only difference is the coffee used.
Jools Walker: Correct. So then once the tiramisus were done, we had to find some taste testers
Scott Bentley: And thankfully, that's where our lovely producer James came in. Uh, he had two friends, quite local to Jools, and that was Vas and Evelyn. So why did we choose Vas and Evelyn?
Jools Walker: Well, we were not looking for tasting experts. We were looking for what? Everyday coffee drinkers. Not the snobs, like you Scott one in their desserts.
And in fact, we learned that Evelyn doesn't even drink coffee, which was perfect.
Scott Bentley: Well, yeah, maybe perfect for you. Um, the coffee nerds, uh, yeah, we're not going to be using those guys in these particular experiments. We kind of want to find out more what you, dear listener is most likely to want in your coffee flavor, desserts.
Jools Walker: So a few hours later Ian cycled over the two tiramisus to Vas and Evelyn now,
Scott Bentley: Ian cycled over. So Ian's major tiramisu in cycling the tiramisu over. What role are you playing in this episode Jools?
Jools Walker: I was overseeing everything.
Scott Bentley: This should just be sort of just me and Ian. Sorry. I keep talking over, you carry on
Jools Walker: Back to the point of the episode. We have the two tiramisus. Now we label them up as tiramisu A, which was a speciality version and B, which was the instant version. Now all we tell them Vas an Evelyn is there was a difference between the tiramisus, but they have no idea that it is two different types of coffee inside of the desserts.
Jools Walker: Vas and Evelyn, hello
Evelyn: Hello.
Vas: Hello!
Jools Walker: Are you both coffee lovers by any chance?
Vas: I’ll let Evelyn answer that
Evelyn: I don't drink coffee, at all. This is going to be interesting.
I'm a big tea drinker and I'm a bit of a tea snob, but don't drink coffee.
Jools Walker: Oh, and what about you Vas? How's your relationship with the Brown bean?
Vas: You'll be pleased to know that I do like coffee.
Jools Walker: Excellent
Vas: I had a nice latte on the way back from my run this morning, I do occasionally buy nice coffee and grind
Evelyn: occasionally? Not every day. There's a ritual
Every single day, there has to be a very particular coffee. We have to walk a very long way to get the Pacific beans that are ground by hand every single day.
Jools Walker: Have you got your two tier who's in front of you?
Evelyn: Yeah, they are currently wrapped up. So we might have to do a bit of unwrapping.
Vas: Yeah, exactly. You want the unboxing, right? Yeah. So I'm unclean filming A
Evelyn: I also, admittedly, I'm not drinking coffee and not a big fan of tiramisu.
Jools Walker: Oh Ok!
Evelyn: I think maybe I just haven't tried it in a while and I've been told I had just, haven't been having a good tiramisu. So maybe this is the beginning.
Vas: Right. We are now armed with spoons.
Evelyn: We'll both go for A first
Scott Bentley: This is the specialty coffee version.
Evelyn: Oh my gosh. Wow. I’m reserving judgment actually this is really good.
Scott Bentley: Yay. We've converted Evelyn into coffee
Evelyn: It doesn't seem like it's too strong a coffee flavor. It feels like it's a nice. After taste hit rather than overwhelming.
Scott Bentley: Maybe, maybe this is a good time. Now you've had a good taste here to move over to B.
And this is the instant coffee version.
Vas: This is a lot creamier.
Evelyn: That's stronger.
Vas: Is it?
Evelyn: I feel like I can really taste the coffee and this one
Vas: tastes more like Nescafes. It's more instant tea.
Scott Bentley: And how'd you feel about that Vas?
Vas: So looking down at it, there was like a pool of coffee at the bottom where my spoon was. Whereas the other one is like totally dry. I mean, just I'm now I'm like eating the coffee in spoonfuls. It's actually really good coffee.
Jools Walker: So hold on. I'm just gonna watch that again for the benefit of Scott.
You're enjoying the taste of the pool of coffee that you are getting from tiramisu B.
Vas: Yes. The, what I would describe as a puddle of coffee that is at the bottom of Tiramisu, when I put it to my mouth tastes more like these nice floral coffees that I enjoy
Jools Walker: some spoonfuls of tiramisu have been consumed. I think the time has come to ask of A and B. Which one do you prefer?
Evelyn: I think for me, it's probably A, because I could eat probably like a whole tiramisu of A cause it's not too overwhelming on the coffee front
Scott Bentley: And Vas, how do you feel?  
Vas: I'm so torn.
Scott Bentley: You’re torn?
Vas: I think if I sat down for tiramisu and what I wanted was a tiramisu, I would choose A
Jools Walker: Tiramisu A, was made with the speciality coffee and B was the one that had the instant coffee in it,
Vas: which I liked later on
Jools Walker: So A appears to be the overall winner then of the tiramisu
Scott Bentley: Evelyn and Vas. Thank you so, so much for sampling these tiramisus
Jools Walker: Yes!
Scott Bentley: I'm afraid that I wasn't able to taste the, so, um, I think I'll just have to savor the sweet taste of victory instead.
Jools Walker: Ohh
Scott Bentley: So Jools, first round to me, specialty coffee wins the tiramisu.
Jools Walker: Yeah yea, that's so good. But remember there was still one more test to go. And that was your coffee, ice cream. Isn't it Scott?
Scott Bentley: Yeah it was, so while Ian was making your tiramisu. I. I was making my own coffee ice cream. But to be honest with you, it's so ridiculously simple, you don't need a professional chef to do it.
Jools Walker: Oh, okay. Well, how did you make them?
Scott Bentley: There's a link in the show notes, or you can fast forward to the ends of the episode and hear me yabber on about it. But essentially it's three ingredients in a bowl whisked together.
Jools Walker: Cool. And, uh, what coffees did you use for, for your ones then?
Scott Bentley: The same as yours. It was the natural Colombian coffee from Extract the Uncle Funka and a basic instant coffee powder from the supermarket.
Scott Bentley: So I hopped in my car and I drove to my friend's Will and Neil and dropped off these coffee ice creams to them in these little freezer bags.
Jools Walker: Cool. And why, why did we choose Will and Neil for this?
Scott Bentley: Okay. I've known Will and Neil for a long time now, the are very old friends Will, is not a professional chef taste expert. He's a regular guy. He's just got a really good palate. I mean, he's actually been on Master Chef
Jools Walker: Hmmm
Scott Bentley:  So he really understands food. He really understands flavor. He loves coffee, but he isn't an expert in that.
Jools Walker: Okay.
Scott Bentley:  And Neil, I've worked with Neil for a long time and he just loves a great flat white
Jools Walker: All right, Scott. So you'd already won with a speciality coffee in the tiramisu dessert, and you were so confident that you were going to win with your speciality coffee, ice cream as well.
We decided that if you were to actually lose this competition, you were going to sit down and enjoy a whole cup of room, temperature, instant coffee won’t you?
Scott Bentley: I believe we had that discussion at some point.
Jools Walker: Now
Scott Bentley: I don't remember actually agreeing to it though.
Jools Walker: Your confidence was that it was oozing through with the, with this competition
Scott Bentley: My confidence was seeping through my  pores.
Jools Walker: Filtering through your pores…. before we get to the next part of our experiment, here's a quick word from our sponsors.
Scott Bentley: Okay. Jools quiz.
Jools Walker: Oh I like that.
Scott Bentley: Just to see if you were listening, go way back to an earlier episode.
Jools Walker: Yeah
Scott Bentley: Do you remember using cow juice, how much CO2 is in your flat white?
Jools Walker: I really want to say that I do remember.
Scott Bentley: Did the cat eat your homework?
Jools Walker: I've got two cats. They completely destroyed it. They shredded it.
Scott Bentley: It was 250 grams.
Jools Walker: Oh so before I get sacked from the show, I just want to say, do your bit for the planet and switch to Oatly, bye
Scott Bentley: I don't even remember myself actually
Jools Walker: Then you're a terrible co-host as well
Scott Bentley: Hey Will, hey Neil, how you both doing?
Will: Good, thanks.
Neil Webb: Glorious.
Scott Bentley: For the benefit of our dear listener, Will, could you just introduce yourself?
Will: Came on as well. I'm a tailor.
Scott Bentley: And you spent many years on Savile Row. Uh, if I remember rightly, but also you are a Master Chef. Now tell us a little bit about your coffee, drinking habits.
Will: Uh, my coffee habits are filter either V60 or Aeropress probably drink between what three and three or four cups a day.
Scott Bentley: But I know you're definitely a specialty coffee drinker Will.
Will: Yep. Very much so. Yep.
Scott Bentley:  Now, Neil, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Neil Webb: I'm Neil, I'm the owner and founder of Bowman Cycles. So I guess I design bikes for a living.
Scott Bentley: Uh, tell our listeners about your coffee habits
Neil Webb: In terms of coffee, that'll be four or five flat whites a day
Scott Bentley: Guys, ice creams. You have two in front of you labeled A and labeled B. And I want you to both dig into that first one for me
Jools Walker: This one's a specialty coffee version
Will: Okay, just have two spoonfuls.
Scott Bentley: What are your thoughts Will?
Will: Well, um, it's a perfectly acceptable average coffee, ice cream
Scott Bentley: Thanks. Well, Will reckons it's a bit meh. So
Will: It's fine. It’s nice, you know, it's, it's a… It's a perfectly decent coffee ice cream.
Neil Webb:  Stop digging Will, stop digging.
Scott Bentley: Oh, Will, it doesn't sound like you’re particularly impressed. Uh, maybe Neil, do you want to take a bite?
Jools Walker: Okay. So Neil has just dropped a spoon and is pulling quite the face.
Scott Bentley: Oh my God, I'm not trying to poison you, Neil. I promise. Give it to me gently. What do you think?
Neil Webb: Um, Hmm. It's it's. Yeah, well, it's, it's got the flavor of cheap coffee chocolate, the sort of thing. You'd leave at the bottom of a bag of rebels. Put it that way.
Jools Walker: Wow
Scott Bentley: So is this on the same par as maybe, you know, the leftover coffee chocolates in the bottom of a Quality Street tin or something like that?
Neil Webb: It's not that good.
Jools Walker: Ooh.
Neil Webb:  It's got the flavors of what coffee was like before I drank coffee.
Scott Bentley:  Ooo, that’s a burn! Okay guys, I think you've hurt my pride quite severely already. I've got a meh and a much worse than meh so far. So then Will if you would be so kind, kind being the operative word.
Jools Walker: operative word yeah!
Scott Bentley: To taste the second one that we have, B.
Jools Walker: *whispering* And this one is the instant coffee
Will: That one's better. That one's much better.
Scott Bentley: Can you talk us through it?
Jools Walker: Yeah
Will: Stronger coffee flavor, um, lingers…. lingers on the mouth more, slightly more bitter, which is nice. Or I think the coffee is more prevalent. It's at the forefront of the palate, as opposed to the other one where it just gets washed out by the, the cream
Scott Bentley: Neil, I would love it If you would be able to dig into the second tub there and let us know your thoughts
Neil Webb: One moment, please caller. Hmm, it definitely doesn't have the accurate burn the back of your mouth flavor that the other one did. That that's something I'd actually will probably quite likely finish the rest of the tub off.
Scott Bentley: Oh wow
Neil Webb: Could you not have dropped a bigger one round?
Scott Bentley: Well, I can give you the recipe, mate is very easy to make
Gentlemen, thank you very much for your critique of my handy work. I've got to say I'm a bit disappointed. The first one A, that you had was made with specialty coffee and yes, the second one was made with instant coffee and it seems like something you both preferred. Jools, it looks like you might have beaten me on this one
Jools Walker: But I'm, I'm super surprised.
Scott Bentley: I think. Well, I've managed to do here is to find two taste tasters, who absolutely have no taste at all.
Okay. Jools, before you start dancing around the room. I think a lot of this is down to the fact the ice cream is obviously very, very cold and that affects how we taste it.
Neil Webb: I mean, it, it does go to show that cold things ruin people's palates, which is kind of fairly well-known
Scott Bentley: I think one of the things interesting things here about both coffee and ice creams, as they operate on the extremes of your taste buds
Jools Walker: Umm
Scott Bentley: The way in which your taste buds work the best is that body temperature you'll notice that things taste their most potent at body temperature.
And then when something's either very hot or very cold, it kind of like balance that now with ice cream, you would usually load it with sugar. So you're what you're getting is the sweetness. And, uh, with coffee, if you drink it too hot, you basically just don't really taste much of it. So I'm going to go with that is the only reason my ice cream is so terrible is because it's cold
Jools Walker: That's it just, just temperature. Not nothing else?
Scott Bentley: Nothing else.  
Neil Webb: I definitely say I prefer the one made with instant coffee. It works better as an ice cream, for sure.
Scott Bentley: Gentlemen, thank you again for your time.
Will: Thanks for the invite mate
Neil Webb: Absolute pleasure
Jools Walker: So, Scott, what did we learn here today with this experiment?
Scott Bentley: Well, first of your boyfriend's a far better chef than I am.
Jools Walker: That's very, very true. Ian’s, he's a better chef than me as well, but we also learned that sometimes coffee stops can get it quite wrong.
Scott Bentley: Yeah. I mean, it's a lot to unpack here because obviously I don't want to admit defeat in any way, but.
Different coffees have very different flavors and work in different scenarios.
Jools Walker: Yeah. And I guess there's also the different variables at play as well. So for instance, we learned that temperature actually really matters and has a huge effect on how we'll taste. So the tiramisu is they got taken to Vas and Evelyn, they left my fridge cold.
And by the time Ian had cycled over to them, they were pretty much at almost room temperature when they would have been delivered to them. And you know, that the speciality ended up being the thing that tasted better in the tiramisu
Scott Bentley: When you drink coffees. And when you taste coffees, even from when you first brew them
Jools Walker: Ummm
Scott Bentley: Till the fact that they're almost stone cold, they go on a journey.
Jools Walker: Mmhm
Scott Bentley: You know, they change flavor as they cool down as different parts of that coffee become more prominent. And I think what we've learned more than anything here is the sugar makes everything taste great.
Jools Walker: Well, Vas did love that a delicious, sweet puddle of instant that was floating around at the bottom of the tiramisu
Scott Bentley: You choose just to unpack a little bit there. I think the interesting thing is people aren't used to having those more nuanced coffee flavors when they're tasting a coffee flavored thing.
Jools Walker: Mhmm
Scott Bentley: So
Jools Walker: Yeah.
Scott Bentley: You know, when you've got like a coffee chocolate or coffee ice cream, you have, uh, an idea of what you think it should taste like.
Jools Walker: Yeah exactly. And it's more of a sort of generic taste of coffee, if that's the right way to put it? I mean, if I'm digging into a tub of quality street and I want to get to the coffee flavored ones, I'm not looking to have an explosion of papaya or mango in my mouth while I'm just eating a bog standard chocolate coffee, confectionary thing. I just want that smooth kind of bland taste of coffee, just running through it. I don't need all of those fancy flavors and people aren't expecting hat from something like just a piece of chocolate, you know?
Scott Bentley: And why anyone wants to go and find that coffee chocolate is beyond me. So, I love you dearly Jools, but you are weird.
Jools Walker: You’re just not ready
Scott Bentley: But I do agree with you. You're not expecting to taste that coffee flavor from like a Geisha coffee when you're eating that chocolate at the bottom of the Sainsbury's tub which should have been thrown out months ago
Jools Walker: You’re missing out
Scott Bentley: Jools, roll the credits.
Jools Walker: This podcast was produced by James Harper, the creator of coffee podcast, Filter Stories, and he also writes and plays the piano music that you hear in the background.
Scott Bentley: Thank you so Vas And Evelyn, thank you to Neil and Will, you can find Neil at and will at
Jools Walker: Now, if you liked the show, please subscribe on your podcast app. You can also help others find the show by leaving a review on Apple podcasts or Castbox
Scott Bentley: You can follow on social media. Me @caffeinemag,
Jools Walker: Where you’ll be posting your video of you drinking that room temperature cup of instant coffee.
Scott Bentley: Okay
Jools Walker: You can also follow me Jools @ladyvelo, and of course, James our wonderful producer @filterstoriespodcast
Scott Bentley: Our next episode is going to be our last, sad face
Jools Walker: And the next episode is going to be something quite different because it's my personal story that I'm going to be sharing with you. I'm going to be talking about growing up to Caribbean immigrant parents in East London, living with depression and how this all comes together through the power of coffee cycle Saturdays.
Scott Bentley: Thanks very much for tuning in. And if you stay listening, you'll be able to hear how we made the coffee, ice cream and the tiramisu
Jools Walker: All right, Scott. We're in our kitchens and you are going to be making the no churn ice cream. Take us through how you're going to do it.
Scott Bentley: Okay. This ice cream recipe calls for either four espresso shots or two tablespoons of instant coffee powder. We're going to be running through this pretty quick, but don't worry the full recipe will be in the show notes.
Jools Walker: Okay. So you've got your espresso shots and you've got your instant coffee. What's next?
Scott Bentley: I've got 300 milliliters of double cream. I'm just going to put this in a mixing bowl. The next thing I'm going to be putting in is 175 grams of condensed milk. And now I'm going to take my coffee and I'm going to put that in. What I’m gonna do now is whisking, and that's now ready to put into a container and then we just literally slam it in the freezer for around 10 hours.
Ian: Okay. Hi Scott. Um, I'm Ian I'm in Jools’ kitchen and I'm going to teach you guys how to make a tiramisu
Scott Bentley:  Hey, sounds great. And just for the benefit of our listener, can you just introduce yourself?
Ian: I'm a professional chef, not been a professional chef all my life. It's been a recent career change. And I currently work as a pastry chef at Pophams in Hackney.
Scott Bentley: Okay. Ian, why don't you take from the top? What ingredients am I going to need to make this?
Ian: You're going to need some mascarpone cream, some eggs, some sugar, some Savoiardi Lady Fingers biscuits, and some coffee.
Scott Bentley:  Sounds great. Are you going to be doing any twists to this typical Italian dish?
Ian: Some recipes out of alcohol, a bit of brandy, bit of liqueur wine but I've decided to keep it out.
Scott Bentley: Yeah that's probably best we don't our taste testers get an all drunk.
Ian: Okay, Scott, let's dive into it. So the first step is to brew the coffee because you want the coffee to be cold. When you dip the biscuits in, we've only got a Moka Pot, but I've made about 300 mls of the coffee, which I did in two batches.
Scott Bentley: For those that don't know, can you just explain what is a Moka Pot?
Ian: It's that strange metal contraption that you often find in your rental apartment when you're on holiday in Italy, you put the water in the bottom, you put the coffee in the middle and then you pop it on the stove and it goes
Scott Bentley: Great. So you've got your mug of coffee. What next?
Ian: So the coffee's brewed and you've put it into some trays, so it calls down.
Jools Walker: All right. So now I've got the microphone right over the whisker and with my professional chef, Ian doing his thing, but Ian, what is it that you're going to be doing right now?
Piano: I'm going to be whisking up the egg whites.
So the next stage now is to take our four egg yolks, add a teaspoon of vanilla extract and a hundred grams of caster sugar. And then we're going to use the electric whisk again, and we're going to whisk those until they go all nice and light and fluffy. There we go. That's beautiful.
Scott Bentley: So you've got four egg whites beaten together. You've got four egg yolks beaten together with some vanilla and sugar.
Ian: The next stage is adding the mascarpone cream into the beaten egg yolks and sugar.
Scott Bentley: Okay, great. And then next
Ian: We've got our egg whites and we're going to fold those into the mascarpone egg yolk mixture.
And all I'm going to do is very gently, just cut through and then lift up and over. And you just keep doing that until all of the egg whites incorporated. I want it to be lovely and smooth and light.
Scott Bentley: And this is sounding absolutely delicious.
Ian: So the next step is to actually assemble the, uh, dessert. So we've got our custard, we've got our coffee, which is cooled down nicely.
And we now need to take a Savoiardi biscuits and soak them in the coffee, put them in our dish and then put a layer of custard over and then another layer of soaked biscuit and then another layer of custard.
Scott Bentley: So it's like sweet lasagna then
Jools Walker: Can we rename tiramisu sweet lasagna? That sounds like the name of a band that actually
Ian: Is it Italians all over the place going in and no no no
Scott Bentley: What goes on the very top? Should you finish it off with a layer of cream or a layer of biscuits?
Ian: A layer of the cream, and then that's topped with a dusting of cocoa powder. You must then pop it in the fridge for about at least four hours
Scott Bentley: Oh, right. Okay. So the whole, all of the flavors need to melt together.
Ian: Yeah.
Jools Walker: Ian thank you so much for your help on this
Ian: Ah it's okay. So my pleasure. It's been great. Thank you.
Jools Walker: Ok, so the recipes are in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time.