Scott Bentley: Welcome to Adventures in Coffee, a podcast from the toasty and chocolatey world of coffee, brought to you by Ikawa Home and Siemens Home Appliances.
Jools Walker: Now, here on Adventures in Coffee, we serve you surprising coffee stories to open your taste buds and mind, and hopefully to inspire you to have coffee adventures in your kitchen.
Scott Bentley: And this specific episode is brought to you by the Ikawa Home roasting system. And I am going to be using their Home Roaster to delight the lucky Jools’ taste buds.
Jools Walker: Well, I am Jools Walker, I am the best-selling cycling author of “Back in the Frame,” I’m from East London, and I’m your very everyday coffee lover.
Scott Bentley: My name is Scott Bentley. I'm the founder of Caffeine magazine. I am actually a brand consultant and an art director.
Scott Bentley: So Jools, look, today, I'm going to take you on a journey — a coffee, roasting journey.
Jools Walker: Scott, haven't I already heard this before? I mean, you literally gave me a very acidic and very burnt coffee a few weeks ago. And while it was fascinating, my palate wasn’t exactly best pleased.
Scott Bentley: Yeah, I get that. And I apologize for that, Jools. This will be a roasting journey again, but not the journey of the industry, but my personal roasting journey.
Jools Walker: I'm very much intrigued by where this journey is going to take me.
Scott Bentley: I'm going to take you back now a few years. This was quite a while ago and I was doing a cupping for the magazine with Jamie Treby. Now, Jamie now works for DRWakefield, but at the time he was roasting for a company called Taylor Street Baristas. Now, on the table, there were a number of coffees, but there were two specific ones. They were the same green bean from the same farmer and from the same importer. But one had been roasted by somebody else and one had been roasted by Jamie. Jamie had done a little tweak. While he was roasting, he'd literally cut the power of the coffee roaster and then turned it back on again. He said he’d got this from this sort of Japanese roasting technique he’d heard about, or something like that. But on the table, these two coffees were worlds apart, and this totally took my head off. That whole interaction showed me that you can take exactly the same coffee and it can taste completely different just by the way you roast it. I mean, like, drastically different!
[ musical interlude]
Jools Walker: You said that they were like different coffees, but like, how different?
Scott Bentley: Okay, Jools, I'm going to give you these two coffees. They're both the same coffee. They’re Buie Bora — she's a farmer from Ethiopia. Now, I've roasted them differently. What do you think of these?
Jools Walker: Okay, so I've just taken a sip of the first one. I'm not getting a lot from it. It's got a kind of, I would say, grassy taste to it.
Scott Bentley: Interesting. What about the second one?
Jools Walker: It's kind of chocolatey. I prefer this one, but it's almost a little too bitter, it's almost like it just needs a little something to make it a bit sweeter. But that's just bizarre that these are both the same coffees.
Scott Bentley: They're really quite different, aren’t they.
Jools Walker: This now gets me wondering, when I actually buy roasted beans, like at my local cafe that I'm going to brew myself at home, am I actually tasting one specific version of that coffee?
Scott Bentley: Yeah, exactly. The thing about coffee is it's a blank canvas in a lot of ways. The green coffee that we get is really just open to how the roaster wants to interpret that.
Jools Walker: So, what happened after you discovered that?
Scott Bentley: Okay. So after my cupping session with Jamie, I was quite curious after this to know how far could I get with some relatively basic
tools? I mean, could I roast decent — I mean, I don't mean amazing — but like, decent coffee on just some simple equipment?
Jools Walker: And could you?
Scott Bentley: Well look, I'm going to fill you in on how I tried to roast coffee at home, before. And let's just say, I have my fair share of humble pie. In fact, I've still got about three of them left in the fridge, But, yes.
Jools Walker: Okay. Well, I genuinely cannot wait to hear where this is going. But, before we get there, Scott, let's have a quick word from our sponsors.
Scott Bentley: It's time to take a coffee trip with Siemens Home Appliances.
[Ad music begins]
Jools Walker: Scott, where are you taking me today?
Scott Bentley: Now, Jools, we are off to Márcio Custódio and Heitor Botelho’s farm in the heart of the Minas Gerais region in Brazil.
Jools Walker: Oh! And what’s so special about this coffee?
Scott Bentley: Okay, how's this for crazy? This coffee was fermented in sugarcane juice!
Jools Walker: Ah, Scott, I love eating raw sugarcane — seriously!
Scott Bentley: Okay, I did not know that! Well, the thing is, we're not talking about them just pouring, like, a glass of sugar cane in. We're talking about 5,000 liters — in a tank.
Jools Walker: Oh my goodness, this sounds like a dream. But I'm expecting some seriously sweet coffee flavors for this then.
Scott Bentley: This way of processing coffee is extremely unusual. I mean, it's really quite unheard of.
Jools Walker: Alright then, Scott, let's crack into it on the Siemens EQ700.
Scott Bentley: Okay, Alexa, tell my coffee machine to make me a doppio espresso
Alexa: One espresso doppio.
Scott Bentley: Start.
Jools Walker: And this coffee is called Fazenda Cetec, and it's roasted by Chipp Coffee in Leeds.
Scott Bentley: Now, what are you tasting?
Jools Walker: I'm getting the sweet hit. As somebody who does actually chew raw sugar cane, I feel like I can taste it.
Scott Bentley: I'm getting, like, a red fruitiness — almost like red wine.
Jools Walker: Mmm.
And that was a coffee trip brought to you by Siemens Home Appliances.
[Ad music finishes]
Jools Walker: So Scott, a few years ago, you realized that how you actually roast a coffee massively changes how the coffee tastes. What happened next?
Scott Bentley: I wanted to see how far I could possibly go. There was something in my head that was still saying, you know, what am I doing here? I'm just turning green beans brown. I mean, really, how hard could it be? And I even looked into some of this DIY coffee roasting, and I happened to pause on some YouTube videos, which kind of taught you how to roast with a popcorn popper.
Jools Walker: How did you do this in a popcorn popper?
Scott Bentley: There's actually YouTube videos on how to roast coffee in a wok, as well. But that sounded like way too much hassle.
So, you've essentially got a static drum, and you've got these veins in it. And what happens is that air is heated up and is pushed out through these veins, and essentially it makes a vortex of air that spins around. So, when you drop the green coffee beans in, they spin in this chamber. And as they spin and they heat up, they turn brown. And then you get to the stage where they start popping. They actually do start cracking, much like popcorn pops as well. But, that's essentially it.
Jools Walker: How did that go for you?
Scott Bentley: I've recorded this little video for you, because I knew we were doing this. Now, you can see all these beans spinning around in this chamber, but what you'll also notice is all of this chaff, which is flying out of this popcorn popper. Now, chaff is this sort of thin white papery material, which is on the outside of the coffee bean, but when it heats up it separates and it flies everywhere. It’s like having the worst dandruff in the world, you know? It just goes everywhere.
Jools Walker: How did you know when they were actually done?
Scott Bentley: My roasting plan was pretty simple. Get these coffee beans past first crack, but not to second crack. Simple.
Jools Walker: What is first and second crack?
Scott Bentley: First crack is where you can hear the coffee beans cracking, popping open. Now, if we go past first crack you can get to second crack, but
that's when the beans started to get quite oily, burnt — and I didn't want to go that far. So I went to first crack, and then I cut it dead.
Jools Walker: But, Scott, was it that easy?
Scott Bentley: Do you know what, Jools? It really wasn't that easy. There are many things that you kind of want to be able to do that you just don't have in such a basic machine. There's no way of really controlling the temperature. You know, apart from a stopwatch, there's no real way of timing it. And the second batch and the first batch, they're probably going to taste very different. So, yeah, it's not very good on, let’s say, consistency, at the very least.
Jools Walker: Yeah, I was going to say, even if you managed to absolutely nail it in your popcorn maker and you got this amazing batch that you loved, it’s not really going to be that simple for you to repeat it and get it again, because there's just so many things that seem like they're out of your control.
Scott Bentley: Yeah if that was the case, yes. But I think it's pretty damn difficult just to get it close to tasting good anyway! I never got a good batch out of it. I think if I bought one of these bags of coffee from a coffee roaster they would have gone back with a stiff letter. The Yelp review would have been quite harsh.
Jools Walker: Very poor, very poor.
Scott Bentley: Yeah.
Jools Walker: So, Scott, we know that you did a popcorn popper thing, trying to roast these beans and it didn't work out that well for you. So, what happened next in your roasting journey?
Scott Bentley: I kind of, in some ways, let go of this dream a little bit and thought, do you know what, maybe it's just time to leave this thing to the professionals. But then a few months ago, Ikawa reached out to us and lent me one of their home roasting machines — it’s called the Ikawa Home. And I’ve finally been able to roast coffee well and consistently.
Jools Walker: As you know, I have been roasting on the Ikawa Home and sharing my home roasted coffees with baristas across the UK. And without wanting to blow my trumpet too much, they have absolutely loved it, which has been great. But you know, Scott, I'm not in the industry. I am not a roaster. So, for the most part, I was literally just using the recommended recipes on the Ikawa Home. And it was brilliant.
Scott Bentley: And Jools, look, before we continue down this rabbit hole, I think it would be kind of helpful to explain to our dear listener just how this machine works.
So, first off, you launch it and you're given a number of options: You can either roast something you've roasted before, or if you have got the coffee from Ikawa, they come with a QR code. And that will instantly download to your phone and to your roaster the recipes that they have already created for you that you can now roast.
Jools Walker: Right. And you know, just as I mentioned before, Scott, I was just pressing the recommended recipe buttons. Like, literally just pressing the button. But what were you doing with the machine, Scott?
Scott Bentley: I went just beyond the recommended roast recipes. First off, you get to choose: Are you roasting for filter or espresso? Once you've done that, you can then go into: What is the roast profile? There are five settings; everything from light, light-medium, medium, medium-dark or dark.
And then, the last parameter is development time. And development time again has three parameters from low to high. And the thing is, I didn't really understand what development was actually doing. The flavors were dramatically different, but I couldn't for the life of me tell you why they were different — what was going on. And you know me, I'm a bit of a dork about this sort of stuff. And I really, really wanted to know a bit more.
Jools Walker: Okay, so I'm guessing that you went on, like, a paid for roasting course, or perhaps you swatted up and read a few books on it?
Scott Bentley: Why would I do that? I'm the host of a coffee podcast. I just speak to the people themselves. Essentially, I'm bothering clever people again.
Jools Walker: Hey! We love to do that on this show.
Scott Bentley: So, I got on the phone to this person.
Ildi Revi: My name is Ildi Revi, and I have been the director of performance for Ally Coffee for almost five years.
Scott Bentley: And, Jools, before we get into all the nerdy, sort of sciencey stuff, I just want Ili to kind of give you a brief summary of her roasting journey. And this whole thing starts off with an old fashioned romance. Ildi married a coffee farmer.
Ildi Revi: A coffee farmer in Zimbabwe. Yeah. So my first roaster I roasted on was a roaster he had built. It was literally a drum, a stainless steel drum that had a handle that I turned manually over charcoal. And it takes about three people to roast because, you know, you're constantly turning this handle. And when we moved from the farm to the United States, we bought another drum roaster, a propane drum roaster. So, that started in 1998. I've been roasting since then, Yeah, and I've run a roasting company for about 15 years.
Jools Walker: I like the way she's got into it. It's just, like, straight to the source. So, yeah.
Scott Bentley: And more recently, Ildi has spearheaded a lot of the educational materials for the Specialty Coffee Association.
Ildi Revi: When I moved from the coffee farm to owning a roasting and cafe, I didn't know what I was doing. So, I turned to the Specialty Coffee Association of America to take classes. So, I went to the classes and they were great, wonderful coffee professionals who were not teachers. So, I said, look, I will take your knowledge and turn it into effective classes. And that way I learned roasting from all the top industry people by downloading their knowledge and skills, and then designing curricula.
Scott Bentley: To understand development, Jools, we need to understand some sort of more fundamental things. So, to start off, this is what actually happens when you put green coffee into a roaster.
Ildi Revi: There are essentially three different phases of roasting. There's the drying phase where you're just getting the water out of the seed, or the bean. It's like cooking, when you first put a piece of meat on a grill, a piece of chicken — if you were to flip it too early, it would be this pale beige, right? And so you're getting all the moisture out of it.
But then the fun starts, where you decide how long you're going to cook it, how you're going to apply the heat. And every choice a roaster makes, from the time the beans start drying, changes the profile of the coffee. So, if you roast very quickly, you're going to get one taste out of the seed. And if you roast really slowly, you're going to get another taste out of the bean. And both of those, just like cooking, if you roast anything too fast or too slow, it's usually not going to be that great. But it's the nuance in between that that makes the coffee taste different.
Jools Walker: This makes me think of when Mama Vela does her stew down chicken, right? Because this thing takes hours to cook, and the idea that if she did it in like five, 10 minutes, it would just be rubbery, wrong, pale, disgusting. But the longer that you leave it on there for, the better this thing becomes.
Scott Bentley: Yeah, absolutely. So when is my invitation again?
Jools Walker: I’m still working on it.
Scott Bentley: Okay, look, so this first stage all you're really doing is drying out the beans. You're getting rid of that moisture. But, look, as the temperature builds, we then start approaching something called first crack. Now, you remember I mentioned first and second crack earlier on in the episode, with the popcorn popper? Ildi goes into much more detail here, and actually this is quite fascinating stuff
Ildi Revi: Coffee, as it dries out, the cell walls, it's like, imagine a little sponge. The coffee dries and then the cell walls break and they crack, just like popcorn. And we call that first crack. And from the time first crack starts until the time you remove the beans from the heat completely and start to cool them down is what we call the development time.
Scott Bentley: Oh, I see. So development is essentially a stage after first cracking. And what happens to the bean during that development? So, if I was to shorten or lengthen that development, what's going to be the direct thing that happens from me changing from a short to a long development time?
Ildi Revi: It's a lot about the caramelization of the sugars and the charring of the cellulose of the bean, just like toast. You're going to be burning the toast. Now, some people like the taste of burnt toast, some people like really dark roasted coffee. So, with that, your development time is going to be longer.
And then other people like to hold the bean back and have a shorter development time. That's going to produce a coffee that has higher acidity. And the compounds that are in the bean itself, you're going to really be tasting that natural quality of the bean at the earlier stages. But if you take it out too early, it's going to be very acidic.
Scott Bentley: So, essentially if we don't have much development, we've got warm bread, and then if we put it in there too long, we've essentially got charred, burnt toast. And so, the idea therefore is to balance somewhere in the middle, where you like it the best — where it is sweetest and nicely caramelized. Would that be correct?
Ildi Revi: That is completely correct.
Scott Bentley: Brilliant! I love that.
Jools Walker: I'm going to attempt to get a bit geeky on this with you.
Scott Bentley: Join the geek club.
Jools Walker: Do I get like a pin badge or something, as well?
Scott Bentley: Yeah!
Jools Walker: Excellent! But, I have to ask, why does the coffee change so much in flavor the longer that you apply the heat to it?
Scott Bentley: Ildi mentioned many different ways in which coffee changes when you apply heat. Now, if you really want to be part of the geek club, girl, you’ve got to get your head around this. You know light-roasted coffee is really quite acidic, right? And that's because of all this citric and malic acid in the coffee. But the longer you roast, those acids break down and they decline, and that's why you lose the acidity. And then meanwhile, you know, the longer you're roasting, there are different acids and flavor compounds, and they're actually building up.
And then, look, there's lots going on. There's compounds, and they're swapping molecules with each other. It all gets very fascinating and very nerdy. And if you want to learn more, then, you know, you’ve got to pay your subs fee and be a proper member of geek club. And I'm not giving you that here.
Jools Walker: Fully paid up member.
Scott Bentley: But there's one particular reaction that I really want to talk about now. And that's called the Maillard reaction.
Ildi Revi: There's a key mark point; it just starts when you start to see the beans go from green to yellow. And what's happening are the reducing sugars — the monosaccharides, the simple sugars, the glucose, the galactose, fructose — those are starting to caramelize.
Jools Walker: Caramelizing? I mean, I didn't even think that coffee had sugars in it that would caramelize.
Scott Bentley: Yeah, actually, it's kind of more than just about sugars. It’s also about reducing amino acids in the beans, because, look, the sugars have to combine with amino acids.
Jools Walker: Oh.
Scott Bentley: So there you have it. Look, development time, in short, refers to how long you caramelize the sugars within the coffee beans for, as well as effecting how many of those aromatics are actually in the coffee — and the acidity, of course.
Jools Walker: How did this information change the way you roasted on the Ikawa Home?
Scott Bentley: Well, I actually began playing with the different development times more. And I actually ended up preferring coffees that didn't follow Ikawa’s suggested development recipes. Actually, in the coffee grown by Buie Bora in Ethiopia, the Ikawa Home recommended a very high development time, but I actually preferred a medium one.
Jools Walker: Well, Mr. Bentley, I wouldn't mind trying some of those coffees, if you had any of them going at the minute.
Scott Bentley: Well, dear fellow podcaster host, you’re in luck.
So, I have Buie Bora coffee here. Now, they're both roasted for filter. One is high development and one is medium development. This first one here which I'm giving you is medium development.
Jools Walker: There's something quite berry-like. Dark berries.
Scott Bentley: Yeah.
Jools Walker: Uh, there's kind of a bit of acidity going on with this too.
Scott Bentley: Okay, yeah. That was the medium development, and here's the high development. Remember, this is the one that's been roasted longer.
Jools Walker: Oh, that's kind of boozy. Like a heavy winey booziness that's coming off of it, for me. So, like a dark red.
Scott Bentley: It’s almost port-y, isn’t it.
Jools Walker: Yeah. There's something kind of perfumey about this too.
Scott Bentley: Okay, so if we look on Ikawa’s app, they recommend going for a high development on this one, but you’re in the same camp as me? We're going medium?
Jools Walker: I’m going medium on this one.
Okay, so this is all really interesting, you know, everything that you’ve said to me so far, and this has got me thinking. I know that the Ikawa Home’s recommended recipes, they're based on the sorts of recipes that professional specialty coffee roasters would use. And, in a way, it's kind of the same as buying a bag of coffee from a cafe, right?
Now, these are the flavors that the roasters have chosen for you. So, they've decided that this was, I guess, the best expression of the coffee bean. But, you moved away from those recommended recipes. And then you ended up creating your own personal flavors that you felt tasted even better. So, what do specialty coffee roasters and professionals think of your coffee?
Scott Bentley: Well, Jools, here's the interesting thing. I kind of knew this question was coming. So, what I did was I put it to the test, and I got on the phone with this person.
Agnieszka Rojewska: My full name is Agnieszka Rojewska, which is, like, basically impossible to say for most of the countries in the world. So everybody calls me Aga. And I used to be a barista, I used to own a coffee shop, I used to work as a coffee trainer. And as part of that, I was doing coffee competitions, and it happens that in 2018 I was lucky enough to become a World Barista Champion, which is, for now, I think one of the greatest achievements of my life.
Jools Walker: Lucky enough to win…
Scott Bentley: Hard work! Yeah.
Jools Walker: World Barista Champion — I was going to say, a bit of a big deal there!
Scott Bentley: Pretty big! Aga’s been in the coffee world now for a fairly long time. She first started in coffee way back in 2008.
So, I mean, how many coffees do you think you've tasted over your career? You must have drunk a lot of coffee.
Agnieszka Rojewska: Yeah. So, I would say that when it comes to drinking coffee, it has been, like, hundreds of thousands, but then tasting was probably more.
Scott Bentley: Wow, Okay!
Jools Walker: I want to cut straight to the chase here, because you've sent your coffee to an absolute hard hitter in the game. What did Aga think of your coffees, man?
Scott Bentley: So, I sent her three coffees and there was no information on there. I just made up some, like, cryptic code numbers. But there was nothing on there about where they were from, who roasted them, how they were roasted or anything. They were all the same green beans, but the first was in the popcorn popper, the second was the Ikawa recommended recipe, and the third was my own personalized recipe.
Jools Walker: I see! Okay, then you need to tell me about the popcorn popper coffee. Now, I'm just going to hazard a guess that surely, straight away, Aga could tell that this was unlike the others.
Scott Bentley: Yeah. And guess what? She didn't like it!
Agnieszka Rojewska: This is definitely the one that I liked the least out of those three. And, you have a little bit of, let’s say, a smoky aroma. It's smoky not like smoke from a fireplace, but more like if you actually baked vegetables and the skin goes into, like, a burning point. So this has a little bit of that type of aroma, which is not super strong, but you can definitely get it.
Jools Walker: Okay, so the popcorn popper coffee was definitely not the one.
Scott Bentley: Nah. So, interestingly though, Aga also tried the coffee once it cooled down. And she does this when she brews coffee, because…
Agnieszka Rojewska: Basically, our body, when something is hot, feels some flavors differently than when the same thing is cold.
Jools Walker: Ah, so the flavors don't necessarily change, but our ability to perceive the flavors changes as it gets cooler.
Scott Bentley: So, once you tasted the cooled down version of the popcorn popper coffee…
Agnieszka Rojewska: So, basically the flavor notes stayed exactly the same. And when the coffee gets cold, just a bitterness becomes a little bit more intense.
Jools Walker: Alright. So, what about the other two?
Scott Bentley: This is where it got a little bit more interesting.
Agnieszka Rojewska: Well, the other two were pretty similar. Okay, so the one that starts with IKH was better when it was warm, but the other one was better when it was cold.
Scott Bentley: Essentially, she preferred the Ikawa’s recommended recipe when the coffee was hot, but actually preferred my recipe, with a slightly shorter development time, when it was cool.
Jools Walker: Okay. Why?
Scott Bentley: Well, when it came to the Ikawa’s recommended recipe with a high development time, when it was hot…
Agnieszka Rojewska: So definitely some fruits, a little bit of herbal notes, lemon, cherry, milk chocolate, almonds. Some acidity, pretty pleasant, not very sharp.
Jools Walker: So, those flavors are a thumbs up?
Scott Bentley: Mmm, but the problem was when it cooled down…
Agnieszka Rojewska: You can get a little bit of, let's say, woodines.
Scott Bentley: And with my personal recipe and my favorite roast profile, when it was hot…
Agnieszka Rojewska: It was just a little bit more boring when it was hot. So, the other one was, like, a little bit more happening. And with this one, it was, it was okay, coffee. I had some plums, nuts, a slight acidic, dried fruits.
Jools Walker: Now that's interesting from Aga, because she's not saying that the coffee is bad, but it's not exactly blowing her away at the same time.
Scott Bentley: But when it cooled down, for her, was when the magic happened.
Agnieszka Rojewska: There was more fruitiness. It just got a little bit rounder. It was a little bit more sweet. So, like, all the flavors actually got through, and I started to feel them. And I like this one more, because there was more happening when it actually cooled down, and nothing unpleasant appeared like in the other one.
Jools Walker: So, what did she say, Scott, when you revealed, you know, that you were the person who roasted those coffees.
Scott Bentley: The other thing that I wanted to let you in on was that they were all roasted by me.
Agnieszka Rojewska: Okay. On the Ikawa or something else?
Jools Walker: So she guessed that you roasted it on the Ikawa?
Scott Bentley: Yeah. I mean, I think in some ways, for someone like myself who's not a professional roaster, and she'd tasted the popcorn one as well, she kind of knew that, mmm, you must have used the Ikawa. I mean, there’s nothing else out there that does this sort of job to this sort of level.
Jools Walker: Scott, thank you so much for taking me on this journey. It's just, number one, incredible, the differences that there were between the coffee, even though it was all the same bean. Just those little tweaks, the recommended recipes that you could work with to it as well. The wonderful thing about this is that you can do this so simply in the Ikawa Home Roasting app. You know, if our dear listener wants to learn more about the Ikawa Home roasting system, we’re going to put a link in the show notes as well.
Scott Bentley: Yeah, Jools, I mean, look, I think for me, the takeaway of this is: Green coffee is a blank canvas, and if you want to take control of that, then you can.
Jools Walker: And so, I guess, Scott, if you want to be the Picasso of coffee flavors, then the Ikawa Home Roaster is your tool.
Scott Bentley: I'd rather be more of a Caravaggio of coffee flavors.
Jools Walker: Oh, okay. Get you! Banksy of the Bean — that's what I'm going to call myself.
Scott Bentley: Oh yeah. The Banksy of the Bean!
Jools, I think it might be time for the credits.
Jools Walker: Let’s roll them.
[Credits music begins]
Now, dear listener, if you are not able to support us on Patreon, that is not a problem. Because you can help us for free by telling your friends about the show.
Now, the more people who listen to us, the easier it is for us to keep the show going. I’ll tell you what, why don't you hop on Instagram, create a little Instagram story from a screengrab of your podcast player, and tag us. So that's me, @ladyvelo, Scott, @caffeinemag, and James, @filterstoriespodcast — and we will reshare it on our platforms.
Scott Bentley: Yes, we will. We will indeed. Now, this podcast was produced by James Harper, and he wrote and plays the piano music, and our editor is Amedeo Berta.
Jools Walker: And we need to give a huge thank you to Aga and Ildi for their time.
Scott Bentley: So, Jools, tell me now, what are we exploring on the next episode of Adventures in Coffee?
Jools Walker: Now, dear Scott, we are going to be learning about the world of coffee from a trained winemaker.
Scott Bentley: Why would I want to learn about coffee from a trained winemaker? What do they have to bring to the table?
Jools Walker: This is why this next episode is going to be a banger. Because fellow podcaster Lucia Solis of the Making Coffee podcast will be taking us to coffee and wine farms to surprise us.
Scott Bentley: Until then, dear listener, please avoid the popcorn popper and keep your kitchen nice and clean.
Jools Walker: Bye bye.