Episode

Scott Bentley: Welcome to Adventures In Coffee, a podcast by Caffeine Magazine, sponsored by Oatly.

Jools Walker: Now in this second series, Scott and I are exploring the world of coffee for people who are quite curious about what's in their daily cup

Scott Bentley: Yeah we’re all becoming much more interested about where our food and drink comes from.

So Jools and I, and James made this podcast to demystify what is quite often a quite complicated world of coffee. And I hope we're going to have a few laughs along the way, Jools.

Jools Walker: And this episode is something a little different because we are going to be taking you on Adventures In Your Kitchen. Now, this is the first of a six episode mini-series that we're going to be bringing to you, which isn't going to be taking you around the world this time.

But instead taking you for an adventure in your kitchen and arming you with tips, tricks, and hacks on how to brew better coffee at home.

Scott Bentley: I must admit Jools there are some places in the back of my cupboard, which I've not been for years. So it’ll definitely be an adventure if I open those  doors! Now, I'm Scott Bentley, I am the founder of Caffeine Magazine and all round coffee dork

Jools Walker: Such a good word. And I'm Jools Walker, a very proud east Londoner, and a woman that you will find riding a bike or with a cup of coffee in her hand.

Scott Bentley: Not the same time.

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Scott Bentley: Now on today's episode, we're going to answer the question. Should you embark on a home espresso journey?

Jools Walker: Oh yes, this is, this is quite something that's been on my mind Scott, because you know what I want to jump on that home espresso train.

Scott Bentley: Jools we’ve been doing this podcast for a year. Why do you want to get on the espresso train now?

Jools Walker: I want to have more fun with the way how I make coffee at home. I want to try different things and maybe try and recreate that sort of barista coffee shop experience in my own kitchen as well, so where else to do it but here?

Scott Bentley: I think actually it's that you want to make gingerbread lattes and you just don't want the shame of asking for it in a coffee shop.

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Now we should just define off the bat here. We're not talking about pods. We're not talking about Nespresso. Uh, we're not talking about Moka Pot because I think sometimes that's also referred to as espresso-like we're talking about a little machine, which is going to pump out nine bars of pressure and give you that God shot, you know, espresso shot.

Jools Walker: God shot. You need to tell me what this is.

Scott Bentley: Oh, well, I mean the sure. It's a, it's a term that's come from yester-year. But it's essentially when you just get that beautiful shot over espresso that just tumbles out of those spouts and it's thick and just look so resonance and just awesome. It's a beautiful thing to see.

It's like your God came down and said, you will be a good shot. A big finger came out of the clouds and said, you will be great today. And it makes your day when you get that really perfect espresso

Jools Walker: I've just got to say this, this is why I love your coffee dorkness, because the passion of this is, is wonderful, but I don't actually know what the God shot tastes like.

I'm just imagining from what you've told me. So what is it that is going to hit me? If, and when I am able to create the God shot at home?

Scott Bentley: it's balanced, it's sweet. It's thick is everything you really, really want from it. But, you know, everyone's, God shot is probably a little different finding your God shot is essentially what this journey is and hitting that time and time again, that consistency is also what we're really, really after here.

Jools Walker: So ok Scott, so is it as straightforward as me just finding an espresso machine, plugging it in and just running with it?

Scott Bentley: I mean, that'd be great. Wouldn't it? I mean, that,

Jools Walker: that's the dream.

Scott Bentley: That, that would be the dream. Unfortunately, if you're expecting that, you're probably in for a little bit of a disappointment, but you know, the wider question is, is it a good idea to go on this journey?

And I think, yes! You know, I think this is great fun. And if you're into coffee and you want an adventure in your kitchen, you should absolutely think about this seriously, but what you will need to understand are a number of things. How long is this going to take, you know, what is this journeys timeline in lobbies?

What's it going to cost? And yes, that's a financial cost, but also maybe a sustainability cost, you know, what's it going to cost in the wider picture maybe? And this is what I think we’ll discuss in full in this episode

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Jools Walker: But before we get there, Scott, here's a quick word from our sponsor,

Scott Bentley: and this is a sustainability hack brought to you by Oatley.

Jools Walker: Scott, we know that you are the king of caffeine

Scott Bentley: Or the prince of the pour over.

Jools Walker: Tell me about your routine.

Scott Bentley:  I drink it, my wife drinks it. Then, uh, I drink some more and then my friends come over and then they all want coffee from me because they know it's better than any of the coffee they get anywhere else.

Jools Walker: So I'm visualizing mountains of ground coffee, just all over your kitchen.

Scott Bentley: Alright, I’m not that dirty! But yeah, sometimes it sometimes takes me a couple of days to clean up.

Jools Walker: Ok so our friends at Oatly have given us some great sustainability hacks in regards to what you can do with your coffee grounds. Now tell me. Do you throw them away?

Scott Bentley: I do, but they get thrown in my compost.

Jools Walker: Okay. Gold star for, for Scott. There is an estimated 250,000 tons of coffee grounds go to waste. In the UK

Scott Bentley: That's tragic.

Jools Walker: It's really tragic. And what's even more tragic because, you know, they end up in landfill

Scott Bentley: Yeah

Jools Walker: When they go to landfill, they end up emitting methane, which is a greenhouse gas and that's 25 times more damaging than CO2, but there are other things that you can do with it, other than just putting it in your compost heap, how about a lovely natural face scrub with your coffee grounds?

Scott Bentley: Ok

Jools Walker: But it doesn't stop there. Do you grow things in your back garden?

Scott Bentley: Yeah, I’ve got loads of weeds. You want some?

Jools Walker: I don't, I don't want any weeds. No, thank you. But what about outside an inside. If you have like pot plants. Fertilizer!

Scott Bentley: Do you just literally sprinkle it on?

Jools Walker:  You just put them in. And this is the interesting thing. I have done this with my hydrangeas in the back garden.

Scott Bentley: Right

Jools Walker: You put them in the soil, they change the color of the flower.

Scott Bentley: I'm sticking it in my hydrangeas,

Jools Walker: pop it on any plants, pop it on your skin. Don't pop your skin anymore. And that was a sustainability hack brought to you by Oatly.

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Jools Walker: So the three things that we're going to be looking at Scott is how much is actually going to cost,

Scott Bentley: Yeah

Jools Walker: How much time it's going to take in regards to learning it and just getting on with making it in the kitchen, and the sustainability element of it as well, which is something that had crossed my mind because obviously this is going to be another appliance running in my kitchen.

Scott Bentley: Let's take one of these parameters first. What's it going to cost?

Jools Walker: Mhmm

Scott Bentley: Have you got a thousand pounds to throw at this?

Jools Walker: Scott, I wish I had a thousand pounds to throw at anything at the moment. So I probably could find a thousand pounds. But that's a hell of a lot of money for me to drop on, on an espresso machine.

And I'm sat here thinking to myself, do I really need to spend that much money on something to pop in my kitchen and make some coffee? To be honest, Scott, I think I've got about 250 pounds that I could afford to throw at this without breaking the bank.

Scott Bentley: Well, would Jools, I think for 250 pounds, that's going to be a bit of a challenge. Um, because I think we're not just talking here about an espresso machine. We're talking about a set up, and that set up has to include things like your tamper and your grinder and your milk jug

Jools Walker: Let me just stop you right there.

Scott Bentley: Mmm

Jools Walker: I can knock out one of the costs already, which is great because I've got a grinder.

Scott Bentley: Oh ok.

So yeah, I've got my Wilfa grinder that I used to do, like my filter and stuff.

Scott Bentley: Is it a filter grinder or is it an espresso grinder?

Jools Walker: It's a grinder. It grinds my beans

Scott Bentley: And how fine does it grind your beans?

Jools Walker: I don't know.

Scott Bentley: I think what you mean probably have is a very good filter grinder, but unfortunately, to get good, consistent espresso, you need a grinder that can go very, very fine.

Jools Walker: Oh alright

Scott Bentley: Let's go back to the price that we're discussing here. Is it possible to get a whole setup for 250 quid it's super tight. It means that you will probably have to get, you know, many of your things second hand, but also you have to be thinking about this isn't going to be the easiest way to get good espresso. Can you do it cheaply? Yes. But is cheaply also going to be easy? Probably not.

Jools Walker: I’m going to sound like a toddler now, but, but why, how, what is this? It's just like, it's still spending more money Scott. Like what, what am I getting? What's the bang for my buck with this?

Scott Bentley: So if you've got 250 quid that you can get yourself a nice little secondhand machine. I think my first one was a gadget classic that I bought on Gumtree actually.

Jools Walker: Oh okay.

Scott Bentley: Now just one the quirks about this is that it has a single boiler, and this single boiler is used to do both the brew water, so when you brew your coffee through and also is used to create steam and the steam obviously is what you're going to need to create your nice fluffy milk drinks.

But the problem with this little boiler is that it only puts energy into the boiler to kind of make the water hot when it drops below a certain temperature. And that is like a wave. Cause you know, like there'll be, the water will start going cooler and cooler and then it will hit that base. And then the machine will say, oh, okay, more energy in let's make the water hotter and hotter and hotter until we get to the temperature that we want, and then it will start to drop off again. So you get this wave.

Jools Walker: Okay.

Scott Bentley: Now you want to start brewing your coffee as it's at the optimum temperature

Jools Walker: Right?

Scott Bentley: Because otherwise your coffee tastes a bit off, so you want to get it a very specific temperature. This is good temperature surfing. Now, if you spent more money on a machine, the machine would kind of keep that water much more consistent and you wouldn't have to do this little thing

And this is just one part. There are many different little quirks that you have to do when something is cheaper, you have to do it more manually. When you spend more money, it gets done for you automatically.

Jools Walker: Oh okay. This is becoming clearer. As it becomes more complicated

Scott Bentley: Oh yeah, welcome to complication.

Jools Walker: So the thing is not to make it sound like that I'm lazy. Yeah. I'm now realizing that maybe, maybe Jools needs to dust them off out of her purse a little bit more and dig a bit deeper.

Scott Bentley: It's all about a trade off

Jools Walker: So the more money that I end up spending, the more time I'm going to end up saving

Scott Bentley: but it's also, this is the journey and this is the fun bit.

Do you want to get into the weeds on this, you know, go on to, I don't know, coffee forums and kind of work out how these things happen or have you got enough hobbies in your life and actually you just want a damn good cup of coffee because the difference is going to cost you.

Jools Walker: Cause I know you must be on those coffee forums, for sure. Like, you know, coffee king, 19 something.

Scott Bentley: Don’t tell them my handle!

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Jools Walker: So so what's the next level up when it comes to spends on a coffee machine?

Scott Bentley: I think the next sort of level up is around 700 pounds. And for this you're looking for a brand new consumer machine and some of these machines actually have an integrated grinder. So you're saving on that as well.

Jools Walker: All right, then Scott, we have established machine talk, which has been very interesting

Scott Bentley: Machine talk

Jools Walker: Machine talk, talking about the machines. How are we going to make it now I do want to talk about the cost and cost savings when it comes to me having this very lovely machine at home, that I'm going to be doing the thing with

Scott Bentley: Let’s do it this way then. So how much would a flat white be if you bought it out?

Jools Walker: Uh, three pounds, something like 3 50, 3 70 something.

Scott Bentley: Actually

to make a coffee in your own home, a flat white in your own home, including the beans and the milk and electricity, I'm going to ballpark it around a pound

Jools Walker: A pound?

Scott Bentley: One pound

Jools Walker: Just a pound? Well, that's much cheaper than getting it from a coffee shop, which is,

Scott Bentley: It is, and you're saving, you're going to be saving around two pound 50 per coffee that you don't drink outdoors.

If you were to have an espresso set up in your own home, how many times a week do you think that you wouldn't go out to the coffee shop and you would stay home and, you know, replace those coffees from a cafe?

Jools Walker: Maybe the, the take three days a week out. And I would do that at home. So I would have, I guess, six, six coffees at home? Instead

Scott Bentley: Ok

Jools Walker: Of going out and having them. So, yeah.

Scott Bentley: So if each of those coffees, each of those six coffees is three pound 50, then essentially that's 21 pounds that you are spending in a cafe

Jools Walker: Oh when you say it out loud I realize how much I spend on coffee.

Scott Bentley: And that's and that's per week as well, isn't it?

Jools Walker: Yes.

Scott Bentley: Yes, it is.

We've said that a coffee would cost about a pound to have at home. So you will be saving 15 pounds per week by doing it at home

Jools Walker: I like these maths. This is very pleasing.

Scott Bentley: Now on those six coffees that you're saving money on, you're saving yourself 780 pounds per year.

Jools Walker: I can already visualize what I could be spending that money on

Scott Bentley: Well you gotta buy the machine first

Jools Walker: No this, this the thing it's, it's leading more and more towards dipping in and getting that good, good espresso machine and saving that. Good, good, good money. As a result

Scott Bentley: But think about this as well. How many does Ian drink? If he even drank the same as you, that would still be a saving of another 780 pounds on top of that, but he doesn't, he drinks even more!

Jools Walker: I know

Scott Bentley: I mean, I reckon you guys are going to be saving, you know, 1500 quid a year.

Jools Walker: Don’t

Scott Bentley: By doing it at home

Jools Walker: That's a laptop. That's new bike equipment. That's the holiday that we've not been on.

Scott Bentley: Some wheels

Jools Walker: Exactly. That's just, just, just a set of wheels. It's just, you know what, it's just, it's hearing it out loud. This is an investment that is going to pay itself back quite richly

Scott Bentley: And quickly.

Jools Walker: Hmm.

Scott Bentley: So you were talking “oh you know what? I really only got 250 quid to spend on this.”

Jools Walker: Hmm

Scott Bentley: Yeah, you could still make great coffee, but it probably is gonna just be a bit hard work. Why don't you spend 700 pounds? We've already done the math. You're going to save it in the first year. It will be much easier to use and you'll want to make it much more.

It'd be much quicker to make these coffees and you know what I intend, this is also the other thing, you'll drink more coffee.

Jools Walker: Hmm.

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Scott Bentley: Well, at the end of the day, short decision to make, if I had a case, I would put it here just on the table

Jools Walker: And you’d rest it.

Scott Bentley: And I’ve rested it.

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Scott Bentley: Right Jools, in the words of Colombo one more thing. How long is it going to take you to get to, you know, world barista champion level and smash out those God shots day in, day out, time and time again

Jools Walker: The Empress of espresso is here.

Scott Bentley: Oh

Jools Walker: All right, then Scott, tell me, how long is it going to take me?

Scott Bentley: So Jools, in the bad old days, we used to have these clunky, old grinders and these sort of like clunky, old machines and nothing was very consistent in, they were all over the place. That technology has got so much better now. Now me from the dorky point of view, I mean, you, you know me, I, you know, I'm such a nerd with these things. I weigh stuff out, I'll weigh out my beans. I grind that many beans. I know that that's the right amount of coffee in there, and these machines are great. They don't alter. They don't go all over the place.

Jools Walker: Uh

Scott Bentley: Hopefully once you've got things locked in, you shouldn't be wasting too much coffee. And there will be small variations, but there are some amazing ones online tutorials.

You know, there are some great people out there that you can watch YouTube videos of, and they will teach you step by step what you need to do. If your coffee shot runs too quickly, then do this. If your coffee tastes like that, then do this. But once you've got it locked in, you’re kind of there.

Jools Walker: Here's the one thing I don't want to do, which I am guilty of doing in the kitchen, and Ian will tell you this, as well as I guesstimate quite a lot, I can't guesstimate. Like my mum does, like, she doesn't have set recipes, but she sort of guesstimates when she's doing stuff and it always works. I don't want to do that with the coffee.

Scott Bentley: Let me stop you there because you've made a great point, and that is many people think that coffee is much like cooking.

Jools Walker: Umm      

Scott Bentley: I would suggest coffee is more akin to  baking, if you get the ingredients and the ratios wrong, you’ve buggered it all up, and you have to start again.

Scott Bentley: Yeah. And you've got to start again. So if you're a little bit more pernickety and dork like you will get consistent results.

Jools Walker: I can get on board with the science of making coffee

Scott Bentley: I have got my coffee grinder and it's set on number nine. Now everyone's grind is different.

Jools Walker: Yeah

Scott Bentley: I know that I, when I put my scales down, I put 17.2 grams in. I know, I know it's 17.2 grams.

Jools Walker: You can, you can sense my face, can't you? with this?

Scott Bentley: But I know it's always that number. I know that number never changes.

And I know the grind grinder never changes and you know, 90 to 95% of the time I get a pretty damn good shot of coffee.

Jools Walker: The thrill, I guess, of doing something like that at home, once auntie Julie has got it right. Would be quite satisfying. So yeah.

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Scott Bentley: Now Jools

Jools Walker: Yes, uncle Scott?

Scott Bentley: You love, you love a Milky coffee don't you?

Jools Walker: I do, I love a latte

Scott Bentley: and what you probably also love when you go to a coffee shop, is a little bit of latte art

Jools Walker: I do is really pretty.

Scott Bentley: It is

Jools Walker: It's really pretty. You'll get the Swan or you get the love heart, or you get the thing that looks like the leaves,

Scott Bentley: You’re not going to do that overnight though. So I think generally speaking, the espresso thing is pretty, it's quite easy to lock down

Jools Walker: Yeah.

Scott Bentley: The latte art thing is the thing that will take you much more time. But the good thing is that that's not going to affect too much the taste, so you'll still have a great coffee. It'll still taste wonderful, but you know, there'll be something inside you that says, oh, if only I could make that a bit better and you can nerd out on that.

Jools Walker: Yeah. I like, I like the idea of practicing the latte art, getting on with that, but I am going to, to make excuses and just say the first one that I do, if it looks like a splodge as a author, it's actually representative of an ink splat in the middle of my coffee that talks about the depths that I go to with my writing

Scott Bentley: Psychology through latte art.

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Jools Walker: Caffeine therapy.

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Jools Walker: So Scott, the second thing that we needed to talk about as well, was the sustainability element of having an espresso machine.

Scott Bentley: Yeah, absolutely. So there's a few things that we should probably kind of touch upon as well. If you're to go and buy yourself a pre loved machine, you know, some second hand. That's probably a good thing.

You know, you are taking something which is no longer wanted that would have either gone to landfill or maybe just sat in a back of a cupboard and you're reusing it.

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Jools Walker: I mean, maybe we'll have a look on like eBay or Gumtree or something now.

Scott Bentley: Yeah, yeah, sure. Let's do that. Let's jump on. Let's jump on eBay. There's usually a lot there.

Jools Walker: All right. I'm going to do my search. I'm going to see what I come up with.

Oh ok, retro Jules is purring at something she's just seeing on eBay. This is very, very pleasing

Scott Bentley: Oh what have you got?

Jools Walker: So it's a Costa Marissa espresso commercial coffee machine, and it's gorgeous. It's kind of got the sixties vibe to it where there's lots of curves and interesting looking red and white buttons on it. It's like lovely and Chrome. It looks like it would definitely do the job and get this it's only 480 pounds.

Scott Bentley: Well, not so fast Jools, and I'm sorry, I might need to pop your bubble on this one as well.

Jools Walker: But why?

Here's the thing, firstly, this is a commercial machine. So this is probably going to be working on commercial three-phase power.

Scott Bentley: Do you have three phase power in your home?

Jools Walker: No.

I know three-phase meter is, from a previous life when I used to work somewhere that had a three-phase meter. I definitely

Scott Bentley: Yeah

 Jools Walker: do not have that in my downstairs cupboard. So no.

Scott Bentley: Well Jools you know, there are some machines that don't need that kind of power. So, let's look at another thing.

Jools Walker: Ok

Scott Bentley: So how much room have you got on your work top? I mean, I'm looking at this thing here that looks about two feet or like just over half a meter wide. Have you got that space on your counter?

Jools Walker: No. I live with the chef, the amount of equipment that we have in the kitchen. This, this is already turning into a no-no for me, which is a shame.

Cause in the picture. As silly as this might sound. It doesn't look that big. It actually looks like it would fit on my counter. So that's, that's a no for me.

Scott Bentley: And now Jools, the final and possibly the most important thing. Just so rewinding a little bit. Do you remember the episode we did with Tim Ridley in the last season, which was all about energy usage in coffee.

Jools Walker: Of course, I've really only need to boil as much water as I need as Tim advised when it comes to making your, your cup of coffee. So, you know, most of the carbon footprint that we leave with making coffee comes from, from the acts of boiling up the water

Scott Bentley: And I think this is the most important thing we really need to discuss here.

This machine is designed to probably, yeah, knock out around a thousand espressos a day. It's a, it's a fully commercial machine.

Jools Walker: Oh, okay.

Scott Bentley: And so, the size of the water tanks, the boilers that are needed to do that level of work consistently time after shot, after shot, you're going to be boiling up some of the region of 10 liters of water.

This thing's going to take half an hour, 40 minutes to warm up in the morning. That's a lot of energy you're using for essentially a 30 milliliter espresso that you might want to brew.

Jools Walker: As much as, as Marissa is a beautiful, beautiful specimen. I don't think Marissa is going to come and live in my kitchen.

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Scott Bentley: No, I think she's gonna stay on Ebay a little bit longer.

Jools Walker: It's a shame, it’s a shame

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Jools Walker: Okay. So we've still got to answer the question, Scott, and I'm still going to need to know this cause whatever happens, I'm still going to end up with a machine that is going to boil water, in order to make coffee, right?

Scott Bentley: Yeah absolutely

Jools Walker: So what's the most efficient way for me to still get my good espresso, but also not leave behind a massive carbon footprint at the same time?

Scott Bentley: We need to think about a slightly different technology.

Jools Walker: Ok

Scott Bentley: So is a technology often called Thermo block or Thermo coil.

Jools Walker: Ok

Scott Bentley: Don't worry about this too much. The Thermo block, Thermo coil they all kind of mean the same things, all kind of the same technology. And what this does is it sucks cold water out of a tank and heats the water that's going through towards, you know, your brew head and it heats it on its journey there.

And it only heats the water, that you essentially need

Jools Walker: Oh okay.

Scott Bentley: What you find now is on the newer machines, we're seeing this technology more and more, and it has, it has problems. You know, it's not always a stable, especially if you want to pull lots of water through, it doesn't always give, you know, always the best consistency in terms of temperature, but actually from an efficiency standpoint, it's excellent.

Jools Walker: Okay. So we've got Thermo blocks, and we've got Thermo coils and I'm now suddenly thinking about how my electric shower works, but this doesn't feel like readily available information to me.

Scott Bentley: Hmm

Jools Walker: I'm just going to walk into a supermarket and I'll just see Thermo block machines or Thermo coil machines. Where am I going to find that kind of information?

Scott Bentley: Yeah, you're right. This is probably isn't the sort of stuff that people shout back ‘cause it's really not that sexy. You'll be able to see which ones these are, maybe by things like warm up time. If they suggest that the warm-up time is in the seconds, you're like 30 seconds warm up time. Or like, you know, two minute warmup times, something like very short like that, that's going to be a Thermo block, Thermo call type technology.

If when you dig around, you realize these things need a half an hour to warm up, then you kind of know that these are probably going to be boilers. Some machines also call themselves dual boilers or single boilers.

Jools Walker: Ok

Scott Bentley: And so there again, you'll be able to work out what it actually is

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Scott Bentley: Ok Jools so, we've talked around this a lot now. So have you come to any conclusions?

Jools Walker: I'm kind of turning into a coffee dork like you with this, Scott, thinking that this could be quite fun to, to, to go on this journey. Cause it's all part and parcel of getting your perfect espresso at the end of the day in your kitchen.

Scott Bentley: So Jools, um, we can inaugurate you into the, uh, the dork coffee club. If you like

Jools Walker: Yay

Scott Bentley: If you want to come and play with us

Jools Walker: I'd like that to do I get like a membership card and stuff as well?

Scott Bentley: You get a little badge like you’re a prefect.

Jools Walker: Oh, I love that! And I'm not going to lie. I probably am going to show off to my friends about the fact that I've embarked on this journey and when the time is right, I will invite them over and fill them with coffee that has been made by my fair hand, I'd like to add, with my machinery and I might even like open a little hatch through my kitchen window and start selling it.

Scott Bentley: Sounds great

Jools Walker: Wait for it, Scott?

Scott Bentley: Yeah.

Jools Walker: Jools’ Java.

Scott Bentley: Jools’ Java. I like that!

Jools Walker: Yes

Scott Bentley: Hashtag #JoolsJava.

Jools Walker: Oh

Scott Bentley: Jools, I think on that, it's time to wrap this up.

Jools Walker: Do you not want to hear my business plan for Jools’ Java?

Scott Bentley: Honestly

Jools Walker: Just, it’s fine. Just roll the credits. Isn't this the case ok

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Scott Bentley: This podcast was produced by James Harper, the creator of the coffee podcast, Filter Stories  

Jools Walker: And he also wrote and plays the piano music you hear tingling in the background.

Scott Bentley: He's very talented isn’t he?  

Jools Walker: Very, very

Scott Bentley: If you like this show, subscribe to us on your podcast app, you can also help others find the show by leaving a review on apple podcasts.

Jools Walker: And of course you can always follow all of us on social media, so you can find Caffeine Magazine on Instagram. That's Mr. Scott. So @caffeinemag myself, Jools @ladyvelo and of course, James Harper @filterstoriespodcast

Scott Bentley: And tell us on social media, what does your espresso machine setup look like? And what would you recommend? What do you think Jools should buy?

Jools Walker: I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing these recommendations, but this little joyous journey that we've been on, leads us very nicely into the next thing we're going to be talking about in four weeks time, which is milk and latte art.

Scott Bentley: However, in two weeks time, we'll be returning to our regular programming style, Adventures In Coffee, and I'm going to prove to the world, through my very own father, that coffee does not taste like coffee. I'm going to open your mind to the galaxy of coffee flavors, I'll be your captain, you are the flavor notes, all on board, and let's leave this world of bitterness behind.

Jools Walker: Alright. I feel like I need to say aye captain, at the end of that, but apparently we've got parents on podcasts and Scott in a space suit.

So please, dear listener do not miss this. So we are looking for us to join you on this adventure next time.

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Jools Walker: So thank you again for listening and we will see you soon

Scott Bentley: Aye aye captain!