Jools Walker: Welcome to Adventures in Coffee, a podcast by Caffeine magazine, sponsored by Oatly
Scott Bentley: In this second series, Jools and I explore the world of coffee for those that are curious about what's in their daily cup
Jools Walker: Now, we are becoming more and more inquisitive about where our food and drink comes from, so we made this podcast to get you all, frothed up about the creamy world of coffee.
Scott Bentley: I am Scott Bentley, and I am the founder of Caffeine Magazine. And I'm going to just own it guys, I'm a coffee dork, yeah.
Jools Walker: You, you dork proudly Scott, you do. And I'm Jools Walker, a very proud east Londoner and yes, I am that woman that you will see on a bike somewhere in east London, riding to her favorite coffee shops.
Scott Bentley: Now in today's episode, we're going back to our Adventures in your Kitchen format.
Jools Walker: We are going to be helping you deal listener on your journey towards becoming a latte art pro.
Scott Bentley: And we're going to help you steam that perfect milk, that wonderful texture, and then pour those perfectly symmetrical patterns. Or we're going to get you at least as close as we can.
Jools Walker: Now one of the really beautiful things about this Scott is that this episode, we’re going to be taking our dear listener on this journey and the fact that you won't need to have any fancy equipment whatsoever in your kitchen to be able to do this. It's literally the tools that you have right now are going to get you to that point, to have that beautiful latte art.
Jools Walker: Now, one of the most essential things when it comes to making latte art is the milk, and of course being able to froth it. So we are going to be speaking to Morgan Eckroth, also known as Morgan Drinks Coffee on all of the social media channels who is going to give us the magic in our milk in regards to being able to profit correctly and get it at that point where it's going to be pure magic to put into your coffee.
Scott Bentley: Absolutely. And then we're going to speak to Heidi Phillips Smith. She is an absolute legend when it comes to, um, latte art here in the UK and she'll help us figure out how to pour exceptional latte art once we've got that perfect milk.
Jools Walker: But, before we do that and take you on this very exciting journey, let's hear a quick word from our sponsor.
Scott Bentley: And here is a sustainability hack brought to you by Oatly.
Sister Jools, it’s been two weeks since my last kitchen sink confessional.
Jools Walker: Tell me my son, how have you sinned?
Scott Bentley: I’m not using a dishwasher
Jools Walker: Oh, Scott, I'm sorry, but I'm really disappointed in you. I mean, did you not see the Oatly sustainability hack, which told us that hand washing creates over double the amount of greenhouse gases as dishwashers? Now Scott, if you convinced two of your friends to invest in a dishwasher across the three of you, you'd all end up saving over 10 tons of CO2 over 10 years.
Scott Bentley: But I don't get it. How is that? I mean, I'm doing all the bloody work here, are you seeing these guns?
Jools Walker: Come on now? I'm sure you probably fancy yourself as the Daniel Craig of, of dishwashing, but it's actually the hot water, Scott
Scott Bentley: Oh, okay. No, no fair, fair enough. Well, actually Jools, and according to these hacks, if you don't use the drying stage of your dishwasher, you can reduce the carbon footprint of that dishwasher by a further 11%. Have you done that?
Jools Walker: Scott? What would you say if I said that I don't actually have a dishwasher, either?
Scott Bentley: This sustainability hack was brought to you by Oatly.
Jools Walker: I’m sorry
Scott Bentley: Right Jools, I hope this next bit's going to be good. Cause I mean, I've gone a espresso machine at home. I've got a dedicated steam wand on that espresso machine and it's, ain't that easy for me to make really, really good milk.
I don't get it right every single time. So you think that we can do this without an espresso machine?
Jools Walker: You absolutely can do this without a fancy equipment in your kitchen, Scott, because, let me introduce you to a person who is going to blow your Milky mind.
Morgan: My name is Morgan Eckroth, I've been a barista in the coffee world for about four years.
Jools Walker: So Morgan is really well-known on the coffee, social media scene, and here is a backstory on her.
Morgan: I started out at a local shop, uh, and then after a while I ended up jumping a little bit into the competition scene. I did some work in the United States Barista Championship, which was really fun. And then I decided I wanted to make internet videos and they started to gain some traction, which I was like, oh, that's, that's fun, like maybe I want to pursue that. I do Morgan Drinks Coffee full time now, which is a lot of fun.
Jools Walker: You have a huge, huge following. So it's that what 359,000 people following you on Instagram alone, which is incredible.
Morgan: It's an, a ridiculous number when I think about it.
Scott Bentley: Definitely puts Caffeine back to shame.
Jools Walker: So Scott, to make wonderful latte at home, you don't need to have oodles or fancy machines or anything like that. And the likelihood is, is you've probably already got one of them in your home already. The humble and wonderful cafetière, also known as the French Press.
Morgan: My very first, um, YouTube videos I did specifically was how to do latte art at home without a machine.
Um, and I leaned really heavily into like the French Press method, essentially all you need to be doing for that frothy milk is you're introducing heat to it and you're introducing air to it. And when you have an espresso machine, you have a steam wand, it does both of those things simultaneously. Which is great.
That's definitely the easiest route, it's definitely going to give you the best product, but there's no reason you can't do those things separately and have a really similar result. So I always recommended people start out with French Presses.
Jools Walker: Scott, I'm sure you already know this, but you need to have foamed milk in order to make latte art, right.
But there's a very specific texture of foam that you need to get to in order to do this. And Morgan is going to talk us through what that is.
Morgan: The thing I'll start out with, uh, when talking about, you know, frothing milk at home is there's always a, a gold texture of your milk, you're looking for, especially for latte art, for that really, really fine, like cafe grade, I'll use the word micro-foam, it's kind of a strange word, but it's those really, really fine air bubbles, you're introducing. That's really the key to that smooth creamy milk we all associate with, you know, like cappuccinos and lattes, and it's hard to get at home.
Scott Bentley: I've kind of seen this done or the internet, I've seen this in videos, but I don't think it's really that possible.
You need some proper guns to make this happen, or you've got to spend a long time doing it. So I don't think this is, I don't think this is a thing. I'm sorry. I'm calling BS on this.
Jools Walker: No, no, I'm I'm no, I'm not having that. Allow me to take you back to the French Press, which is what we're discussing here, because there is actually a very specific and very careful way, you need to use it, to achieve this. First things first, you gotta get that milk to a specific temperature.
Morgan: I always recommend people start off with milk that's between 57 to 63 degrees
Jools Walker: Celsius of course
Morgan: At that point, you're going to have nice, warm milk that's going to maintain that heat for a while, but you're also not getting it to the point where it's going to split or go bitter or any of those things, because the minute that happens, you kind of, you got to toss it down the drain and start over again.
Cause they're going to get those really bitter flavors and it just, it's burnt milk and no one wants that. You can either do that on a stove top or in a microwave. I've done both, you know the microwave, it feels like it's cheating, but it works really, really well, so I always tell people, never be afraid of the microwave, it works great.
Jools Walker: Okay now Scott, now you've got your milk to around 60 degrees Celsius.
Morgan: After that it goes into your French Press. And then this is where kind of the tricky, like it just takes a good amount of practice happens. So you have that plunger on top. You have that, that very, very, very fine mesh. And when you move that through the milk, you know, up to the top of it, and back down to the bottom, you are you're grabbing air and you're pushing it into the milk, which is creating that foam.
But there's that fine line between adding too much air or adding too little. And that's kind of where like the mess starts to happen. Some of the techniques that I found that work super well is doing very, very small movements. So you're, you're bringing your plunger up to the top. And then just a little bit under like, it's, it's a very like delicate. It's not like you're not like plunging the entire French Press, over and over again.
Jools Walker: Guilty
Morgan: No me too. This is many, many times trial and error here. Um
Jools Walker: Yeah
Morgan: But using those small movements, we'll introduce smaller amounts of air, which gives you something very close to that fine microfoam. Time-wise it will probably take you about 15 to 25 seconds of those quick movements of frothing
Jools Walker: Alright Scott, now that you've got your nice micro-foamed milk, you need to pour into a pitcher.
Morgan: After that you can remove your plunger and, I always recommend that people have some sort of like steaming pitcher or jug accessible to them.
Scott Bentley: Okay. I mean, that's actually pretty quick, I was expecting you to have to be kind of like bashing away at this thing for like a few minutes, but she reckon she could do it in 25 seconds, that's probably it as quick as I could steam a jug of milk anyway.
Jools Walker: You’re now ready to go one step further with this and you know, we're about to get a teensy bit more professional.
Scott Bentley: Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's go. Let's go deeper.
Jools Walker: Okay. Well, the next step that Morgan talks about is using one of those, you know, the small whizzing milk frothers.
Scott Bentley: Okay. So these are whizzers. My dad's got one actually, and I've seen him attempt to froth milk in it. And generally speaking, it looks a bloody mess to be frank. Uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to do latte art with, with anything like that, but if Morgan's got some tips on how to make this better, I'm all ears.
Jools Walker: Yeah, well Scott it's truly all about the technique. First things first, put the pitcher on the counter.
Morgan: Let it, let it sit there and let that be the component that doesn't move. Otherwise it gets a little overwhelming. And then the steps for using the hand frother, are pretty similar to what you'd do with a steam wand.
I always recommend people hold their hand frother, at kind of a, kind of a 45 degree angle. So you're not, you're not dropping it down to the bottom. You kind of have it at a slight angle here. You, well, just put it into the milk just enough, so that, that, that swirly little bit at the end is going to be just submerged.
So you're not dunking it down to the bottom, you just have it nicely at the top, because then when you turn it on, uh, the movement that, that swirling motion creates will start to spin your milk, and when that happens, the spinning part will emerge and start to pull air in, which is going to again, create that foam.
So having it at that 45 degree angle, just barely under the surface is going to be really the ideal for introducing air. Now you're only going to do that for about, you know, depending on how powerful your frother, is probably about five to 10 seconds, cause you don't wana like blast your milk, you just want to a little bit of air in there after that, then you will start to submerge it.
So after you get about 5 to 10 seconds of air, then you're going to just push the hand frother down to the bottom, and all you're really doing is just spinning that milk around so you can then introduce that air that you have now sitting at the top, cause you probably, at this point, have two separate textures, you're then are going to want to spin your milk, so all that air on top transfers throughout the rest of your milk.
Scott Bentley: Okay. I mean, that's starting to make sense now because in some ways, knowing what I know about, you know, using a proper steam wand, it's very similar. You're, you're essentially first you're introducing the air into the milk, and then you're trying to kind of redistribute that air in a, in a very fine way. So I've got to say, I haven't done it myself, but I, I can see why that would work.
Jools Walker: And, you know, there you have it Scott, it's, it's right there for less than 20 quid, you can do latte art in your kitchen.
Scott Bentley: Brilliant. Thank you Morgan, for the tips.
Jools Walker: But you know what? It was fascinating speaking to it, to Morgan about this, but I have to admit Scott, that when I was listening to her telling me about how you can do this with either the French Press or the milk frother, I did think to myself, I can actually just use the hand whisker to do this because I genuinely have a bunch of these things lying around in my cupboards, but, uh, Morgan definitely sent me straight on that one.
Is that possible to do that with latte art or is Jools just going to like whisker her own arm off at this point?
Morgan: I think the issue you would mostly run, run into is by the time you've introduced enough air to get something close to a latte texture. I think your milk might be at room temperature, which I think is the, I think it’s going to be the biggest issue you would run into.
It reminds me very much of like March of 2020. Um, there was that huge trend of people making like whipped coffee, where they were doing like instant coffee and hot water, and then they would use a whisk to just whip it up until it kind of became this creamy like, I want to say it was almost like a peanut butter texture with how, how they got it.
Jools Walker: Oh wow
Morgan: Um, but the side effect of that is everyone afterwards was being like, my arm's falling off. Like I'm so tired, like all this stuff. So I worry that that would also be the end result, um
Jools Walker: Yeah
Morgan: Of using a whisk.
Jools Walker: I think by now our dear listener might be wondering what kind of milk should I actually be using to actually get great microfoam of froth milk at home. And Morgan had some absolutely brilliant advice on that.
Morgan: I am fully committed to barista milk. I will always choose barista
Jools Walker: Oh Wow
Morgan: Milk over any other type of milk for pretty much anything I do nowadays, even if that's putting, you know, milk in my cereal, um
Jools Walker: Oh okay!
Morgan: Surface level, it, it may just look like, you know, like marketing or branding being like, this is, this is the barista's milk.
Morgan: And it's like, what, what does that mean?
Jools Walker: Yeah
Morgan: Like that doesn't actually mean anything to anyone. But what they have done is barista series milks are specifically formulated to pair with coffee, and they're also formulated to, um, be able to have and hold that really silky texture that we look for in latte art, and how they do that is they're adding additional proteins.
They're usually adding additional fats and then additional sugars as well. Um, first of all, to make sure the flavor profile of the milk is as complimentary to coffee as possible. So it's not going to be super overpowering. It's just going to be kind of an, an enhancement tool. And then secondly, with those added proteins and fats, it allows a lot more heat and air to be introduced to the milk while the milk remains stable, instead of, you know, either splitting or, you know, you know, having really weird like air bubbles that makes it so it's, it like ups the capacity of the milk, if that makes sense.
Jools Walker: Yeah.
Scott Bentley: It is brilliant, especially if you're using it specifically for coffee. It is, it is very, very, very good.
Jools Walker: Well, there's something I'm definitely going to investigate, but there is actually one milk that Morgan says that we should completely avoid when it comes to trying to do micro foaming.
Morgan: Oh, this might be it. This might be a little controversial.
Jools Walker: Oh we love controversial topics here on AIC. Go for it!
Morgan: I would say rice milk is one that is very very hard to work with. Um,
Jools Walker: Oh wow.
Morgan: Rice milk is super tricky. Um, it tends to have a really thin texture. I've always kind of described it as being a little bit watery. Um, maybe that's just the ones that I've tried, but I've always struggled with it a bit, as far as flavor goes, one of the milks that I've worked with a lot that I think has a really tricky flavor that tends to overshadow a coffee, um, is actually soy milk.
Um, and I know that's kind of the grandfather of all alternative milks. Like that used to be very much like the standard, like that was the only alternative milk for so long
Jools Walker: Yeah
Morgan: But soy has a really distinct flavor that while it's very, very tasty, um, it is very distinct and can frequently overshadow, you know, the components in a coffee that you might want to highlight.
Scott Bentley: I completely agree with Morgan on this. We did a whole feature on this a year or so ago where we took all of the different alternative milks, and I gotta say, she's bang on the money. Rice milk was terrible.
Scott Bentley: We’ve got this great milk now, and it's 60 degrees it’s been froth within an inch of its life. Beautiful, silky, gorgeous microfoam. But what are we going to do it? We really need to speak to a real latte art champion and figure out how we're going to pour those stunning little patterns.
Heidi: My name is Heidi Phillips Smith, and I work at that the London School of Coffee and I'm a latte art trainer and a barista trainer as well.
Scott Bentley: Okay. I think you're selling yourself a bit short there, Heidi.
Jools Walker: Yes. Sorry. Yeah, I always do that.
Heidi: I am a four time UK latte art finalist, and I've competed in the World Latte Art Championships in 2017 as well and represented the UK.
Scott Bentley: So Jools, don't wish to turn into sort of like all the gear type thing, but we've got this beautiful microfoam milk and now we need to get it into these beautiful patterns, and we do need a couple of, you know, a couple of pieces of equipment to get us there.
Jools Walker: Okay. I'm all ears.
Heidi: Okay. So firstly, you're going to need like some nice shaped cups. Um, I would always recommend to get egg shape size cups.
Scott Bentley: And when you say egg shape, you mean the bottom of the cup needs to be rounded
Scott Bentley: Rather than square.
Scott Bentley: Yeah. So you're saying then that I can't pour latte art into my world's best dad mug.
Heidi: Not just yet. It will be much easier to learn and an egg shape cup
Jools Walker: Scott, why is that?
Scott Bentley: I think it's a little bit of like flow dynamics, man.
Jools Walker: Flow dynamics man…!
Scott Bentley: Essentially they'll cup needs to be wide and shallow with a rounded bottom
Jools Walker: Would something like one of my small ice cream bowls be, be good thing to use?
Scott Bentley: Maybe if you wanted to have, you know, a Starbucks super Grande type of coffee. But I mean, essentially though, what you're, what you're talking about is yes, you, you want a cup which looks more like, uh, like an ice cream bowl than something with dead straight sides and a dead flat bottom.
Jools Walker: Okay, curvy is good.
Scott Bentley: Now, the next thing you need is a milk pitcher to, um, to actually pour out of, and I think Morgan also reference this very briefly,
Jools Walker: She did indeed
Scott Bentley: But it's, but it's actually something quite specific that Heidi is going to talk to you about, now.
Heidi: So you just need a jug, which has a good shape spout, which is about a thumb width, and it needs to have this really nice little tip on the end, sharp to the touch, and that tip is the most important part because that's what helps you control when you're pouring your latte art. If you don't have that tip on the end, it would just kind of drag your whole pattern and it won't make a nice clean line through it.
Scott Bentley: And where would you suggest that maybe our listeners would buy their jugs from?
Heidi: You're going to be so happy right now, because it's not a specialist jug
You need to go to Nisbets and you need to get Olympia jugs because they're like the best basic jugs. They're like £8, £10. So absolute bargain and they do them in like different sizes. So you can get the 350 ML one and you can get a 600 ML one, so you should get both.
Jools Walker: You know what? I’m, I’m loving the fact to being able to, to do this is still all quite affordable and accessible
Scott Bentley: Now Jools, is now going to give us a little bit of a step by step of how to create latte art. But the first rule is, you need to steam your milk last.
Jools Walker: Oh.
Heidi: So basically once you've seemed milk, it only has like a short amount of time until it starts to separate. So even if you've made that really amazing, like microfoam creamy milk, if you were to just sit and leave it, it's just going to separate.
So the foam will go to the top and all the liquid will go to the bottom. And then when you try and pour with that, all the liquid will basically come out and the foam will be left behind. So it's really, really important to make your espresso shot first, then steam your milk, and then straightaway start pouring. It's literally a race against time.
Jools Walker: Mate, this is something that I'm guilty of. I've done this when I've tried to steam milk, uh, at home. I've done it and then left it and carried on with doing my coffee. And then I wonder why this thing is just split into like, just two completely different levels of like really bad, bad foam at the top, and then just tepid milk at the, at the bottom.
Scott Bentley: I don't understand it. You know, if you make your espresso.
Jools Walker: Hmm.
Scott Bentley: That’s done! And actually a lot of the heat comes from the milk. So it doesn't actually matter if that espresso has gone cold, or has gone tepid. It doesn't matter because all the heat is going to be bought back with the milk
Jools Walker: Right, noted
Scott Bentley: So Heidi is now going to teach us how to pour latte art, but obviously we're doing this in an audio format and you can't see it. So you're going to have to use your imagination Jools. So close your eyes, relax into the world of the latte art.
Heidi: Basically the first part of the pour, is you're just mixing from a little bit of a height and your mix that espresso in the milk together because you want to basically try and get as much contrast as possible.
Scott Bentley: So you start with the pitcher about, you know, three or four inches above the cup
Scott Bentley: And you get the espresso and the milk kind of spinning around so that there's a nice brown color to it.
Heidi: So mixing the base. Once the cup's half full, you want to basically bring your jug closer to the espresso, and speed up a little bit because obviously you need a bit more momentum to get the foam or the froth to come out. And then as it started to come out and as the cup was filling up, you want to slowly bring your jug back up.You want to come up higher and cut clean straight through.
Jools Walker: See, this thing with height is fascinating because I know when I have attempted to do this at home, I just assumed I could put the jug next to the cup and just pour and just assume that the magic would start to happen that way. But just to actually just that variable of changing it and obviously the effect that it has with the, the coffee, even down to the color and the contrast that Heidi talks about as well is incredible.
Scott Bentley: Jools, think of it this way. You know, you watch the Olympics and you watch the divers.
Jools Walker: Yeah
Scott Bentley: When they jumped from the really high boards, they go down under the water, you know, like a really long way. And if they jump from like the lower boards, they go into the water less deeply. If you pour high, and you with a lot of, you know, the milk's going to go in like quite quickly, it's going to hit the bottom of the cup.
It's a start spinning, which is great. But when you want that milk to float on the top and make your latte art pattern, you need to start bringing the pitcher closer to the coffee because what's happening then is that it's not flying in so hard and hitting the bottom is actually laying on the top surface.
And at the start of the process, you do want it to be high. You want to get their milk into the espresso and kind of mixing around to get a nice brown color to it, but then you need to pull that jug close to the coffee, to the milk then starts to float near at the top.
Jools Walker: I'm, I'm visualizing myself doing this in my kitchen.
And maybe having a bit of what I would call a celebration pour, where I'm trying to be clever and do it.
Scott Bentley: Darling this isn’t Salt Bae.
Jools Walker: the celebration, pour doodle, all of that, but
Scott Bentley: The Spanish guys, when they, when they pour the wine and they do it from a series
Jools Walker: The Oh Yeah
Scott Bentley: That this really, really long they're really high you
Jools Walker: The Yes
Scott Bentley: On the air to it and stuff. It's not that.
Jools Walker: So that's not going to be me in my kitchen doing it that way, but what I'm thinking is that I want to give this a go, but I have the fear that I am going to waste so much milk trying to get this right.
Scott Bentley: Well, that's a really good point Jools, and we don't want to waste milk like that, it's really not good for any form of sustainability. And so if you do have an espresso machine at home, this next little trick will be for you.
Heidi: So basically one of the things that we do is you can just get some cold water and put it in your jug and you can add a tiny little bit of a washing up liquid, and you can just basically, just treat that as if it's like milk and you can just practice steaming like that and get used to texturing it and getting it spinning in that vortex
Jools Walker: That's incredible. So I just need a drop of dishwasher detergent, which most people have in their kitchens, and I'll be able to use this and practice, and it steams like milk.
Scott Bentley: Absolutely. I mean, Okay, Jools, this is assuming our dear listener has an espresso machine at home. I spoke to Heidi and asked her, you know, what are the sort of the right ways and the wrong ways to steam milk? Oh. You know, on what would that sound like? And the other great thing is that you can listen out for this in cafes and get an idea of how they're doing it.
And generally speaking, when you're using a home espresso machine, what is it that most people probably do get wrong?
Heidi: So they either, like, it's normally two polar opposites either they stretch the milk so much and they texture it way too much. So then it's like really, really frothy milk. And obviously you can't pour, like, you could probably pour a splodge with that, but you can't pour it like a nice shaped heart because you basically just over overstretch the milk and it would just be dry and foamy.
Scott Bentley: Okay. Jools, can you hear the sound that Heidi is making with the milk? That's too much air being introduced there.
Jools Walker: It's making me think of a steam train. This is the first thing I can. It sounds like. It's just like, yeah, that, that sounds odd.
Scott Bentley: It sounds really pillowy, which I know is that a weird thing to say, but I've heard that sound way too many times in coffee shops.
And when you hear that, I just know that I'm just going to get like a big ball of candy floss is sitting on top of my coffee is going to be really dry and get stuck in your nose probably. You're not like Coco the clown with a big blob of white foam is sitting on your nose.
Okay, Jools, so we've listened to that. Now we're going to listen to Heidi, do it again, but this time she's not going to put enough air in it. And you know, this is what our producer James is obsessed with, and this is called the pig squeal.
Jools Walker: That was horrendous. That was pain in my ears, hearing that. And I assume that's, that's the pain in your heart when you feel that you, if you walk into a coffee shop, Scott, and you hear the pig squeal.
Scott Bentley: It is not good.
Jools Walker: This is not the milk you were looking for
Scott Bentley: And again, I've heard that so many times in coffee shops and it's definitely one of my pet peeves.
And if I hear that I'm turning on my heel and I'm walking out because I know that I'm getting nothing, but, burnt, really insipid milk and that's not what I want to pay for.
Jools Walker: This is fascinating because we've listened to the sound of dry liquid, if that makes sense. So when it's just going to be too frothy and just like there, then we've had the charming pig squeal where it's just going to be like, no.
Scott Bentley: Boiling milk. With no air.
Jools Walker Yeah. So, uh, just like being the, the Goldilocks of wanting to get like the perfect one. What does perfectly steamed milk actually sounds like?
Scott Bentley: Jools, what did you notice about that third one?
Jools Walker: That it was smooth, and in comparison to the other two, that it was practically like silent. I mean, obviously you could hear something going on with it, but it wasn't, it wasn't a particularly aggressive sounding steaming of milk. It just sounded calm and smooth and balanced.
Scott Bentley: I mean, that is absolutely it. If you can really hear them steaming the milk is a bad sign. If it's almost silent, if it's really, like you say, sound is controlled and smooth, that's a really good sign of someone that actually knows what they're doing.
Scott Bentley: So Jools, you know, you know, I don't expect people to get this right. Straight away. There's a real sense. I remember myself, there was a real sense of satisfaction that first time I got the milk, right. I poured it and I got a heart and it looked like a heart. I think I even Instagramed it.
Jools Walker: If he didn't instagramed that, Scott, it didn't happen, so…
Scott Bentley: Absolutely! But you know, it's a journey, you're not going to get it right. And and even today I get it wrong. I steam it badly, or it just looks like a splodge, but hey, it's all good fun.
Jools Walker: That was an incredible, and yet very steamy session with you, Scott, but I think it might be time for us to now roll those credits.
This podcast was produced by James Harper, the creator of the coffee podcast, Filter Stories. He also wrote in plays the piano music.
Scott Bentley: Our editor is Romeo Ronald Lamora. If you liked the show, then please subscribe on your podcast app. You can help others find the show by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Just think we can help all those people making terrible pig squealy milk in their own kitchen. Please help them ease their pain by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts.
Jools Walker: Now if you want to follow Morgan, you can find her @MorganDrinksCoffee on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
Scott Bentley: And if you'd like to follow Heidi, then you can do that @HeidiPhillipsSmith, and she also teaches latte art at the London School of Coffee in West London.
Jools Walker: In our next episode, we are going to crack open the world of coffee blends.
Scott Bentley: Yes. And we are bringing you an incredible story about a multi-generational coffee roaster and what was considered good coffee back in the day.
Jools Walker: Now we're going to be taking you all the way to Nicaragua to discover the truth about single origin coffees.
Scott Bentley: Yeah wake up sheeple!
Jools Walker: But until then, take care and we will speak to you again in a couple of weeks.